|Re: Mmm Marathon movie|
|Posted By: Rick Blaine||Date: 5/18/02 4:56 a.m.|
In Response To: Re: Mmm Marathon movie (:: Beer Can ::)
: >Agreed. Talk is cheap.
: I'm not speaking of the fact that people talk bullshit and never produce; I
Understood, I think. It's easier to tear something apart than it is to build it. Do I have it now?
: Reminds me of a song: "The Mayor of Ma's Cafe."
No offense taken from anything in your posts. I enjoy arguing with you. Perhaps too much. :D
: >Disagree. A novel paints pictures using words.
: Sorry, Mac, but you're being far too literal.
I was trying to be a 'fuzzy-headed concept slipper' here. I would argue that within fairly broad limits, it's possible to isomorph a story from one form into another, without losing so much of the original that it becomes unrecognizable after the conversion. It's not anything close to a science, its a form of art. I understand your point, and I know you can cite many counterexamples.
: These artistic forms are individual, with their own sets of engineering.
Where do stories come from? The mind of a creator. If we reverse-engineer the book, movie, game or play back to the 'core' story, then we can isomorph it into any form we want, subject to the quirks of differing media. Or so I've been told.
: A novel is capable of producing an experience that a film cannot possibly
Well defined conventions exist for conversion using exposition, flashback, & internal monologue in film. There may not be as efficient a transfer of information when used in film, but these conventions do work.
: Cinema, on the other hand, goes where prose cannot: Into a visual
Universal is a relative term. Within a single culture, yeah. Across cultures? Is there more than one? Agreed that it's easy to let the images wash over you without rational thought, just the experience of raw emotion.
: The stage is again another place producing yet another unique experience.
Yes, the experience of being so intimate with the actors is different, but we can still change a play into a movie. Casablanca. That hanging curve you just threw says you were waiting on this one. The "Marathon Movie" is presently missing in action somewhere near "Brazzaville".
: Finally, video games are their own deal, using a combination of elements to
: Each one of the above venues hold traps and tricks. They're all very
: These things ALL HAVE THEIR PROPER PLACE, and some stories are better suited
: It really depends entirely upon the kind of story.
Partly agreed. Some things are fundamentally better or easier to isomorph than others, but the conversion also depends on quality execution based in talent.
: Example: The Hornblower novels. Amazing cinematic possibilities, yet a very
: INTERVIEW WITH VAMPIRE: Hugely internalized as a novel, and the final
The reaction I expect to hear from the Bungie authors is "Yeah, this is what we saw in 1994. What took you so long?". I claim that this result is possible in this case. It just takes money & talent, neither of which I have.
: TAPE: A stage play made into a short film. Doesn't work so well. Stage
Didn't he at one time write 'girl copy' for Oui Magazine?
: >We need to consider the boredom that swallows
: Were you bored in LORD OF THE RINGS? AMADEUS? TITANIC? LAWRENCE OF ARABIA?
No. Well, not much. I still had to go to the can during the first three (never saw 'Arabia' in a theater). I'm talking about making something that generates as much money as possible, and still could be called 'art' (lower case). How much money did 'Arabia' make in the theaters? Convert to 2002 dollars if you like.
: Length is irrelevant, unless you're pushing 3.5 hours, and boredom isn't ever
There's no way in hell we could convince anyone sane to fund a Marathon movie on spec or just as a DVD. It still has to play at the multiplex, and have more than a 'snowball's chance' of making back that $80 million pricetag. This means as many screenings as possible, with as much time to sell popcorn as possible, & with as many butts in the seats as possible. This means a PG-13 rating at worst. The 'Director's Cut' DVD is another beast entirely. We can make it as bloody as we like, because we _can_. A human skull hit by an energy weapon will flash the blood & brain into steam, blasting the skull apart from the inside. KAPOW! There goes another one! Include as much of the terminal text as will fit onscreen. Viewers at home can freezeframe to read it. Shoot it right & we can cut out enough red blood to get a PG-13 & still leave us enough hooks to hang sequels from _without_ effing up the core story. The action flick in Marathon is all in the visuals. The core story is all in the events & dialogue.
: a factor, lest you've got some sort of mental disorder.
No comment :D
: If a film's good, it's good; if it's bad, it'll kill ya, whether 10 minutes
: Personally, I was almost asleep and catatonic 15 minutes into PHANTOM MENACE.
Compare & contrast to the setup of Jedi. This was as close to perfect as I've ever imagined. All those chesspieces put on the board, in exactly the right places, one or two at a time... The ending sucked, though. No foreshadowing, but that's kinda tough to do when there's nothing to foreshadow...
: >The shooting script must not try to re-create
: "Shooting Script"?
: Getting a little ahead of yourself, aren't you?
Perhaps... I'll definitely have to split the check three ways. Me, Shotgun Pete, & Mark Levin. :D
: >The story does tie in. Who builds a bunch
: Did you read 2001?
Yes. More than once.
: The novel and film are quite a bit different.
: The ol' "internalisation/omniscience" thing kicking-in, again...
Electroshock Therapy works wonders for this, according to what the voice yammering away inside my head says :D
: >The builders wanted to tinker, so this makes
: This was an idiotic departure from the previous storyline.
I thought this was all right there in the film. I may be blurring the lines wrt the movie. Too late to watch the whole thing again now. Do I remember the Monolith killing that first man-ape from the novel or the movie? I'm deleting the whole 2001 thing from here out of sheer need for sleep now & review later. Can we pick this up again sometime soon?
[edited for my lack of memory & need for sleep]
: See also "Childhood's End," which is coming soon to a theatre near
I'll take your word for it, since you seem to have pretty good taste...
: >I can see that the 2001 script is at
: It's almost *all* Kubrick.
IIRC, Stan called Artie & sugested they make the 'proverbial good sf movie'. Pull out Artie & what's left?
: Stanley worked in a very particular manner, and that's one reason 2001 stands
The whole boxset does.
: >One thing is certain, no hack could walk this tightrope.
: But they probably would, were Marathon made.
Granted. Do you have Sam Rami's phonenumber?
: Studio execs care about one thing: Making money off "slaves"...as
: Other words film/TV execs use for the masses: "Assholes."
Go ahead & vent. Just remember that P. T. Barnum was right. Nobody ever went broke by underestimating the taste of the American people. And he was wrong, too. Quality _does_ sell.
: >They're so starved for any real ideas
: You're talking out of school, man.
Actually, I'm talking out my @ss again. Unlike yourself, nobody has _ever_ paid me a single red cent to create 'Art'. You're just too polite to call me on it. I am qualified to talk about what I as a consumer consider money (my $8) well spent, & reasons why I do it or not more than once.
: You really don't understand the dynamics of this stuff. I say that
Granted that I expect critics to have some vision and to be honest, not just shills paid to provide a good review. I understand all too well the nuances of reading & writing a performance review in industry.
You sound afraid. Not of me or my talking out my @ss, but of a train wreck in progress that you're unable to escape.
: See my reference above: "The Mayor of Ma's Cafe."
: You're the Mayor, in this instance.
: But that's okay...
Points understood. And you're right on the money here, too (see 3 steps above). I do tend to talk out of my @ss. My only defense is that my 8 bucks becomes theirs if & only if they can convince me to part with it.
: >The real money is in merchandise. Action figures.
: Reading this little quip has succeed in making me literally physically ill.
: That passage represents everything that's wrong with the film business. Cart
Absolutely agree. Unfortunately, this is the way Hollywood (and to a certain extent 'big science' (no bucks, no buck rogers)) works (at least to this outside observer). If realizing this attitude and wanting to take advantage makes me a (wannabe)whore, so be it.
R. A. Heinlein, "The Man Who Sold The Moon".
: >Ahnold took 'The Last Action Hero'
: Not Arnold's fault, man. Might wanna look at John McTiernan, who's proven
'Took' was a poor word choice. 'Rode' might have been better. The point I was trying to make is that a star who is a proven boxoffice draw can handpick a script, burn a largish budget, and still wind up with something that tanks. No promises anywhere as to results. I actually *liked* 'Action Hero'. Some interesting ideas in there regarding the nature of reality. Agreed it wasn't his fault. Did he have director approval? In my opinion as a consumer, I thought it was a 'bad' movie (didn't pay to see it more than once) because I didn't feel the contrast between the 'movie' & 'real' worlds was great enough. It might have piqued the critics (or not), but it did tank at the boxoffice. I enjoy it enough to make some effort to catch it on cable, when I could be doing other things. Perhaps '1941' would have been a better example. Take the same team that made 'Animal House' (number what on the AFI comedy list?), add a big budget and several cubic buttloads of coke, and the result is nearly unwatchable.
: >Convince Gates of this & there's your studio & funding.
: There are other things I could more easily convince Gates to finance. But
Wannabe mogul or not, he has the cash, the rights to Marathon, & he needs new worlds to conquer. No way around dealing with him for Marathon. Best for us if he sells us the rights cheap, but to convince him we have to offer him the biggest pot-o-gold possible. Cheaper all around if he hires us to do it.
We _know_ he'll sue anybody who gets close to a cyborg on Demios without his OK.
: And you do REALISE that DreamWorks is Spielberg, Katzenberg, Geffen...?
Steven & David, sure, I know who they are. I wouldn't know who that Irving Katzenberg guy was if I tripped over him.
: It was Paul "what's-his-name" that put up some bread, but he was
: SKG run and own the joint. And they sure as FUCK don't need the advice of
Does SKG own all the distribution? Do they have final approval over what gets made or not anywhere in Hollywood? Or are you saying that only Dreamworks could do Marathon right? Steven S. would surely make a great director for this 'project'. Or perhaps Sam Rami?
: As if a market-lucky computer dweeb coulda made AMERICAN BEAUTY...or
Who said anything about wanting his advice? All we _need_ from Billy is his signature that gets us the rights, but a check for $120 Mil would be great, too. Though he probably would feel that his money leased him our ears... and some dangly bits as well.
: Though Steven sure does like him some video games...
: And gadgets...
: And how.
: P.S. The film ALIEN PRISION might offer some Marathon-esque action.
You mean there's some small hope this junkie will get a fix after all?
|Marathon Movie (Not!)||:: Beer Can ::||4/12/02 8:18 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Daši Sveinsson||4/12/02 4:20 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||:: Beer Can ::||4/12/02 4:24 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Ares||4/12/02 6:11 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||VoodooLabRat||4/12/02 7:44 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Tru7h||4/12/02 10:50 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Pedrof||4/12/02 11:19 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||:: Beer Can ::||4/13/02 12:56 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||REB||4/13/02 3:30 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Mannon||4/13/02 11:55 a.m.|
|Good idea! (was "Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)")||Brian Dubick||4/14/02 11:05 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||[Tycho?]||4/13/02 1:22 p.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Steve Levinson||4/14/02 12:23 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||VoodooLabRat||4/14/02 3:35 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Toalmaster||5/31/02 12:30 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Tru7h||5/31/02 7:51 p.m.|
|speaking of fallout...||Vid Boi||4/12/02 11:38 p.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||Tru7h||4/13/02 12:18 a.m.|
|Mmm Marathon movie||VoodooLabRat||4/13/02 1:04 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||4/13/02 3:53 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 4:09 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/15/02 4:11 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/15/02 4:21 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||M-Class||5/15/02 8:05 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/17/02 7:30 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||M-Class||5/17/02 11:31 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/18/02 12:14 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/18/02 4:12 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/18/02 5:01 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 9:13 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 9:05 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm, bass....||Yossarian||5/15/02 9:11 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Tru7h||5/15/02 9:23 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/17/02 8:21 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Yossarian||5/17/02 9:09 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/18/02 12:29 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/18/02 4:21 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/18/02 5:12 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/18/02 4:56 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/18/02 5:11 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/18/02 5:24 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/18/02 7:10 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/18/02 7:28 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/19/02 12:35 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/19/02 6:58 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/19/02 12:19 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/19/02 3:23 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/19/02 7:02 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/19/02 6:53 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/19/02 2:12 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Mark Levin||5/19/02 3:29 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/19/02 7:12 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Rick Blaine||5/20/02 10:13 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Count Zero||5/20/02 11:44 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/20/02 11:51 p.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||:: Beer Can ::||5/19/02 7:00 a.m.|
|Re: Mmm Marathon movie||Tru7h||5/18/02 10:19 a.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||Vid Boi||4/13/02 1:23 a.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||VoodooLabRat||4/13/02 1:50 a.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||Daši Sveinsson||4/13/02 3:48 a.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||Tru7h||4/13/02 11:35 a.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||Ernie||4/13/02 1:09 p.m.|
|Re: speaking of fallout...||Tru7h||4/13/02 3:30 p.m.|
|Plot lines? whaddya think?||Shotgun Pete||5/14/02 5:08 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Mark Levin||5/14/02 7:23 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Jonah||5/14/02 12:33 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Boomer||5/14/02 2:04 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Will||5/17/02 12:04 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Pedrof||5/14/02 2:31 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Mark Levin||5/14/02 4:10 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Yossarian||5/14/02 6:57 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Steve Levinson||5/15/02 4:59 p.m.|
|Re: yeah, but...||Yossarian||5/15/02 6:58 p.m.|
|Re: yeah, but...||Boomer||5/15/02 7:15 p.m.|
|Re: about the intricate plot.||Shotgun Pete||5/15/02 8:30 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Jonah||5/14/02 7:29 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Shotgun Pete||5/15/02 8:34 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 4:33 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Mark Levin||5/15/02 6:23 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 4:02 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Mark Levin||5/15/02 4:23 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 10:01 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Mark Levin||5/16/02 7:21 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Rick Blaine||5/16/02 3:48 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Tru7h||5/16/02 8:03 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Lunair||5/16/02 10:28 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Shotgun Pete||5/21/02 7:35 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Shotgun Pete||5/21/02 7:32 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Rick Blaine||5/15/02 3:06 a.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Rick Blaine||5/16/02 10:11 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Shotgun Pete||5/20/02 1:37 p.m.|
|Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?||Shotgun Pete||5/21/02 7:45 p.m.|
|Re: movie plot||John Denton||5/23/02 9:49 p.m.|
|Re: movie plot||Shotgun Pete||5/24/02 3:04 a.m.|
|Re: movie plot||John Denton||5/24/02 4:06 a.m.|
|Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)||Mike||6/14/02 5:44 p.m.|
|I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...||REB||6/14/02 9:30 p.m.|
|Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...||Vid Boi||6/14/02 10:16 p.m.|
|Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...||Boomer||6/15/02 12:07 a.m.|
|Doorindel. Durondohl. Dirandul. *NM*||Agent Cletus||6/15/02 12:10 p.m.|
|Re: Doorindel. Durondohl. Dirandul.||Djof||6/15/02 4:11 p.m.|
|TRU7TH and Reconciliation! *NM*||Andrew Nagy||6/16/02 8:45 p.m.|
|Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...||Jonah||6/17/02 7:52 a.m.|
|Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...||Boomer||6/17/02 12:07 p.m.|
|Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...||Boomer||6/17/02 4:35 p.m.|
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