/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/


Re: Mmm Marathon movie
Posted By: Rick BlaineDate: 5/15/02 4:05 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Mmm Marathon movie (:: Beer Can ::)

: Let's just face a few things: (1) It's easy to "chat-up" a great
: movie. Actually *doing* one is another thing.

Agreed. Talk is cheap.

: (2) Some things should be left alone. Marathon works as a game. It would work
: as a novel. As a film, it would have to be so very changed that it would
: then become another organism, not unlike the creatures used for food at
: Kentucky Fried Chicken.

Disagree. A novel paints pictures using words. A movie paints pictures with light. One big differences is that a novel can be any number of pages long, and a single movie tops out at around 2 hours. Another is that a reader can put down the book and eat or go to the can at any time, but a movie needs to be viewed all in one sitting. We need to consider the boredom that swallows a movie viewer after a long section of exposition.

The shooting script must not try to re-create every level. Hit the highpoints. Add some things that fit. Arrival. Meet Leela. Leela dissapears. Learn Durandals name. Follow Durandal, because he's the only thing around that looks like a plan to beat the Pfhor. Meet Bernhard Strauss. Durandal orders an execution. Leela returns. Argue with Durandal. Strauss _must_ die for his crimes, but it's an accident, somehow. The cyborg is the 'Orkin Man', not an executioner for humans. Learn who tipped off the Pfhor. Durandal disappears. The engine room. The bomb. Defense drones. The S'pht switch sides. Learn about escape. Lots of fights between events. BoBs die at a distance, mostly. We all know what human insides look like. Take the list of level names & reference as many as possible in the dialogue. Can we get the whole story into 120 minutes? Probably not. 160 minutes? Tight but maybe doable (Coppola did it). 202 minutes? Better, but too long for release. I do agree with you that a single movie would be difficult to get it right. HBO would probably be a better venue.

: (3) Marathon *might* work as a TV series. But it would again have to be moved
: around and changed so much as to become something not Marathon...only
: "Marathon-Based."

The Marathon story begins with the Pfhor arrival at Tau Ceti. It ends with the colony in ruins and the departure of Durandal & the cyborg via the captured Pfhor ship. All the action-flick parts are needed to tell the deeper story. It's a story of escape.

: ...and most importantly...

: (4) Just because you *can* do a thing, physically, doesn't mean you should.

Agreed.

: Look at 2010: ODYSSEY TWO.

: If you wonder why it's such a bunch of tripe, your answer is this: Clarke
: basically wrote that book for the money, only, and for monies associated
: with a filmed sequel. He didn't even care.

I can hear the *ka-ching!* of the cash registers in any sequel, but I didn't think 2010 was such a bad novel. The story does tie in. Who builds a bunch of robot probes to do nothing but watch events unfold? The film conversion had problems. Listening to Lithgow breathe for 10 solid minutes sucked, and the whole Europan thing was mishandled. The movie never pushed the fact that both Jupiter and Europa _are_ environments in our solar system where life could evolve. The novel made quite clear that the buliders of the monolith (via their creation) made a judgement call on which species could evolve 'better' if prompted.

The builders wanted to tinker, so this makes them somewhat similar to us.

: He totally cranked 2010 as fast as he could so he could collect a cheque and
: boogie. He force-fed the previous story into a ridiculous, artificial
: premise, destroying the true (Kubrick-fueled) nature of HAL, reducing 2001
: elements to an "accessible" level, and all for MONEY.

2001 the movie never made clear the true nature of Hal. Hal was told that he should never lie, but that he could not tell the crew the real purpose behind the mission to Jupiter. Hal knows his 'lie' will be discovered as soon as Discovery reaches Jupiter. The survey crew will be revived then. First he tries to cut the cord to Earth. When that fails, and is revealed as another lie, he has to kill the crew & complete the mission alone. This is all in the 1968 novelization, and the detailed explanation of how it all fits got cut from the film for time. We only get hints in the film, the biggest being that pre-recorded message from Dr. Floyd that begins to play as Bowman pulls the last circuit block. IIRC, Floyd uses the words 'operating under sealed (secret?) orders'.

Hal's 'insanity' could have been prevented by teaching him just one more concept.

2010 the movie cut the whole re-explanation of this (in both the novels) down to one line regarding an "H-Mobius" loop. It makes perfect sense, but only to the small number of people who read 2010 the novel and now know that the 'H' stands for Hofstadter, Douglas R., the author of 'Godel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid'. The casting (besides the use of real Russians) sucked, too.

: If you hear differently, you're hearing a lie.

: Since the story of 2001 was mostly Kubrick's creation, I guess ol' Clarke
: felt he had no personal stake in the 2001 franchise, really, and maybe
: even took a bit of revenge against the franchise with his bullshit 2010
: tale.

: Yeah, I know 2001 came from a Clarke short story called "The
: Watcher." What you might not be aware of, however, is how 2001 came
: about, and how Clarke was almost just running the typewriter from
: Kubrick's dictation, holed up as he was in that famous New York hotel...

Actually, it's called 'The Sentinel', which is a very different concept from just watching. A sentinel takes action after well-defined conditions are met. Monolith vs. Pyramid is a minor quibble. The last line of the short story is the hook that 2010 hangs on.

I've never heard the complete hotel story, other than to know the script was finalized in one long session there. I can see that the 2001 script is at least as much Kubrick as Clarke.

: So, do you want some executive or hack producer to "force-feed" the
: Marathon universe into a place where it works for mommy and daddy and the
: two kids from Cleveland? I don't.

Me neither, but it's not an either/or choice. Marathon can be a fantastic action flick, and it can deal with deeper themes, too. We're not talking about making a product that's both a dessert topping and a floorwax. One thing is certain, no hack could walk this tightrope.

Tell the backers it's an action flick. Tone down the language & human blood. No puppies will die within the reels of this film. Who cares how many bugs get squished or fried? Kill all bugs in the goriest ways possible. They're _bugs_, & they started this fight. Make lotsa stuff blow up real good.

Show the critics it's an essay on freedom & responsibility. Man's inhumanity to man. Duty & honor. They're so starved for any real ideas that they'll eat this up. Just make darn sure to walk the walk.

: Anyway, I’m sure a Marathon movie is very likely to never happen: From a
: practical standpoint, why would you make a film from a marginally
: successful game, unless you had a very solid filmatic story from which to
: work? Why would you rebuild a story, simply to film it? Especially one
: that would easily cost north of $80-million to create. Easily.

The rights are cheap, especially for the group that owns them. A successful action flick could gross $200 mil easy worldwide. The real money is in merchandise. Action figures. Marathon the Breakfast Cereal. Cyborg jammies for the kids.

: Too many other properties that offer an easier conversion, not to mention the
: fact that a lot of other properties are quite a bit more successful than
: Marathon.

Ahnold took 'The Last Action Hero' into the toilet.

: Frankly, Marathon, for all practical purposes, is a dead game. Only we
: stalwarts keep it from proper burial. Aside the fact that much of the
: Marathon story and its elements are so extensively borrowed and
: "cobbled" from pre-existing literary and filmatic sources...like
: all the rest of Bungie's offerings, apparently.

Like all stories are beyond the Athenians. Does "Heart of Darkness" == "Apocalypse Now"?

: Unless you found a group of studio execs who loved Marathon passionately, or
: got financing from a lucky computer dweeb (ala Bill Gates), Marathon as a
: film will never and should never happen.

Antz. But better. Convince Gates of this & there's your studio & funding.

: Amen.

Are you Satan himself, or do you just play His lawyer on TV?

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Marathon Movie (Not!):: Beer Can :: 4/12/02 3:18 a.m.
     Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Dađi Sveinsson 4/12/02 11:20 a.m.
           Re: Marathon Movie (Not!):: Beer Can :: 4/12/02 11:24 a.m.
     Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Ares 4/12/02 1:11 p.m.
           Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)VoodooLabRat 4/12/02 2:44 p.m.
                 Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Tru7h 4/12/02 5:50 p.m.
                       Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Pedrof 4/12/02 6:19 p.m.
                             Re: Marathon Movie (Not!):: Beer Can :: 4/12/02 7:56 p.m.
                             Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)REB 4/12/02 10:30 p.m.
                                   Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Mannon 4/13/02 6:55 a.m.
                                         Good idea! (was "Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)")Brian Dubick 4/14/02 6:05 p.m.
                       Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)[Tycho?] 4/13/02 8:22 a.m.
                             Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Steve Levinson 4/13/02 7:23 p.m.
                                   Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)VoodooLabRat 4/13/02 10:35 p.m.
                       Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Toalmaster 5/30/02 7:30 p.m.
                             Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Tru7h 5/31/02 2:51 p.m.
                 speaking of fallout...Vid Boi 4/12/02 6:38 p.m.
                       Re: speaking of fallout...Tru7h 4/12/02 7:18 p.m.
                             Mmm Marathon movieVoodooLabRat 4/12/02 8:04 p.m.
                                   Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 4/12/02 10:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/14/02 11:09 p.m.
                                               Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/15/02 11:11 a.m.
                                                     Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/15/02 11:21 a.m.
                                                           Re: Mmm Marathon movieM-Class 5/15/02 3:05 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/17/02 2:30 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Mmm Marathon movieM-Class 5/17/02 6:31 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/17/02 7:14 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/17/02 11:12 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/18/02 12:01 a.m.
                                                           Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/15/02 4:13 p.m.
                                                     Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/15/02 4:05 p.m.
                                                           Re: Mmm, bass....Yossarian 5/15/02 4:11 p.m.
                                                           Re: Mmm Marathon movieTru7h 5/15/02 4:23 p.m.
                                                           Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/17/02 3:21 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Mmm Marathon movieYossarian 5/17/02 4:09 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/17/02 7:29 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/17/02 11:21 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/18/02 12:12 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/17/02 11:56 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/18/02 12:11 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/18/02 12:24 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/18/02 2:10 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/18/02 2:28 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/18/02 7:35 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/19/02 1:58 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/18/02 7:19 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/18/02 10:23 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/19/02 2:02 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/19/02 1:53 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/18/02 9:12 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Mmm Marathon movieMark Levin 5/18/02 10:29 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/19/02 2:12 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Mmm Marathon movieRick Blaine 5/20/02 5:13 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Mmm Marathon movieCount Zero 5/20/02 6:44 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/20/02 6:51 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Mmm Marathon movie:: Beer Can :: 5/19/02 2:00 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Mmm Marathon movieTru7h 5/18/02 5:19 a.m.
                             Re: speaking of fallout...Vid Boi 4/12/02 8:23 p.m.
                                   Re: speaking of fallout...VoodooLabRat 4/12/02 8:50 p.m.
                                         Re: speaking of fallout...Dađi Sveinsson 4/12/02 10:48 p.m.
                                   Re: speaking of fallout...Tru7h 4/13/02 6:35 a.m.
                                         Re: speaking of fallout...Ernie 4/13/02 8:09 a.m.
                                               Re: speaking of fallout...Tru7h 4/13/02 10:30 a.m.
     Plot lines? whaddya think?Shotgun Pete 5/14/02 12:08 a.m.
           Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Mark Levin 5/14/02 2:23 a.m.
                 Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Jonah 5/14/02 7:33 a.m.
                       Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Boomer 5/14/02 9:04 a.m.
                             Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Will 5/16/02 7:04 p.m.
                       Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Pedrof 5/14/02 9:31 a.m.
                             Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Mark Levin 5/14/02 11:10 a.m.
                                   Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Yossarian 5/14/02 1:57 p.m.
                                         Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Steve Levinson 5/15/02 11:59 a.m.
                                               Re: yeah, but...Yossarian 5/15/02 1:58 p.m.
                                                     Re: yeah, but...Boomer 5/15/02 2:15 p.m.
                                                     Re: about the intricate plot.Shotgun Pete 5/15/02 3:30 p.m.
                             Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Jonah 5/14/02 2:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Shotgun Pete 5/15/02 3:34 p.m.
                             Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Rick Blaine 5/14/02 11:33 p.m.
                                   Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Mark Levin 5/15/02 1:23 a.m.
                                         Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Rick Blaine 5/15/02 11:02 a.m.
                                               Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Mark Levin 5/15/02 11:23 a.m.
                                                     Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Rick Blaine 5/15/02 5:01 p.m.
                                                           Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Mark Levin 5/16/02 2:21 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Rick Blaine 5/16/02 10:48 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Tru7h 5/16/02 3:03 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Lunair 5/16/02 5:28 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Shotgun Pete 5/21/02 2:35 p.m.
                                               Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Shotgun Pete 5/21/02 2:32 p.m.
                 Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Rick Blaine 5/14/02 10:06 p.m.
           Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Rick Blaine 5/16/02 5:11 p.m.
                 Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Shotgun Pete 5/20/02 8:37 a.m.
                 Re: Plot lines? whaddya think?Shotgun Pete 5/21/02 2:45 p.m.
           Re: movie plotJohn Denton 5/23/02 4:49 p.m.
                 Re: movie plotShotgun Pete 5/23/02 10:04 p.m.
                       Re: movie plotJohn Denton 5/23/02 11:06 p.m.
     Re: Marathon Movie (Not!)Mike 6/14/02 12:44 p.m.
           I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...REB 6/14/02 4:30 p.m.
                 Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...Vid Boi 6/14/02 5:16 p.m.
                       Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...Boomer 6/14/02 7:07 p.m.
                             Doorindel. Durondohl. Dirandul. *NM*Agent Cletus 6/15/02 7:10 a.m.
                                   Re: Doorindel. Durondohl. Dirandul.Djof 6/15/02 11:11 a.m.
                             TRU7TH and Reconciliation! *NM*Andrew Nagy 6/16/02 3:45 p.m.
                             Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...Jonah 6/17/02 2:52 a.m.
                                   Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...Boomer 6/17/02 7:07 a.m.
                                         Re: I Hope You're Aware Of What You Have Done...Boomer 6/17/02 11:35 a.m.



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