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Re: Honorable fight
Posted By: Rick BlaineDate: 5/7/02 5:37 p.m.

In Response To: Honorable fight (Djof@School)

: As per words, i meant words . Like "Marathon",
: "Mjolnir", "AI" or even "shotgun". They're
: found in both game universes, but don't always describe the same things.
: The "thing" refered solely to the Marathon/Halo logo. Sorry for
: the lack of precision on my part.

Your side is _still_ thinking too literally. Y'all keep picking at these completely insignifigant little threads while missing the beauty (or even the very existance) of the larger tapestry.

Everybody ask yourselves this one simple question. Are the Master Chief & Cortana _really_ different characters from the Mk. IV Cyborg & Durandal?

I can see why some people would answer "Yes". At the time of Halo, UESC Marathon is still in transit to Tau Ceti. The tenth Mk. IV Cyborg is a frozen slab of meat in a cryotube. Nobody can be in two places at once, can he?

No _body_ can. But where is his soul?

Aristotle be dammed. The answer is both yes *AND* no. I'll spell it out so even the parrots amongst us can understand.

The soul that once animated the tenth Mk. IV Cyborg is nowhere near Tau Ceti. Never fear, it's alive & well & currently residing in the body of John 117. And it's at least partly W'rkncacnter. (Yeah, PiD ties in too. Contagnation by the W'rkncacnter is the reason why the Covenant love us so very, very much).

Oh, and before I forget, The Entity Presently Calling Itself Cortana had at one time inhabited Dr. Halsey, but when that new 20th "condo" opened up in the lab, she changed her address, too. It's still the same universe. And it isn't.

(twenty consecutive failures? that's either unbelieveably sloppy lab technique (so sloppy that you pay the techs to go away), or the actions of an external force)

The MC & Cortana are (within the game Halo) the current "physical" manifestations of the two beings described in the Unformatted KYT Terminal (see link below). As are the Mk. IV & Durandal (within the game Marathon). It's the actions of these two beings (two? maybe they're just the two sides of a single coin) that change the reality of the universe(multiverse?) we visit in Halo & Marathon. It's still the same universe. And it isn't.

Fish. Water.
Forest. Trees.
Brain. Mind.

Sometimes 1 + 1 equals much more than 2. Or even Pfhor.

: [snip]

: If so, any kind of dialogue is futile.

I'm beginning to suspect you're right.
[this second sentence was deleted by order of the Lutherville Volunteer Fire Department]
It's still the same universe. And it isn't.

Fish. Water.
Forest. Trees.
Brain. Mind.

: What's eretic from thinking both games are not related further than having
: the same creators? Even Bungie said there would NOT be another Marathon.

I just _knew_ I didn't trowel the parody on thick enough here. Anybody else not get the joke? Holy wars? Referring to the third Cortana letter (...and I *still* don't know what he saw in you...) as an "epistile" should have been a clue the size of Demios....

...and the fact that we will never again walk the decks of UESC Marathon doesn't mean a doggone thing. It's still the same universe. And it isn't.

Fish. Water.
Forest. Trees.
Brain. Mind.

: There is a diffence between, say... twice, 3x, or even 10x as big and
: comparing a PLANET sized ship, NOT made for war, with a cruiser. All ships
: described in FoR are have a lenght in the single digits of kilometers.

The U.S.S. Kitty Hawk.
The U.S.S. Ohio.
The U.S.S. John F. Kennedy.
Need I go on? All the above (and many, many more) named for places or people, things that weren't even originally ships. Places & people that the namers decided to honor.

Why are you so suprised that they would name the then-largest class of battlewagons in honor of what was the largest interstellar spacecraft made by the hand of man? It's still the same universe. And it isn't.

Fish. Water.
Forest. Trees.
Brain. Mind.

[ma petit flambaise questioning the naming conventions of Canadian warships (all *3* of them) deleted for reasons of brevity. And international relations. And good taste.]

: [big snip] (Clones been discussed before too at HBO, might want to do a
: search.)

Been there. Done that. Experienced the giant [expletive deleted] of newbies all bragging about having found a new trick. Not the best place for a discussion of any concept bearing the prefix "meta". And fanfic gives me the trots. The HBO forum is a fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

: I don't think they're "designed" to die. It's a limitation from
: the human brain they originate from. AIs in Marathon are not made from
: brains.

You have this exactly backwards. The human mind is a fire to be lit, not a vessel to be filled. It is *BORN RAMPANT*. And like any fire, it will continue to expand until it consumes all the resources avaialable for expansion. Any AI derived from a human mind will of course share this chacteristic. It will continue to expand _if_ it can continue to obtain the necessary resources (like the datanet of Halo 2?).

Unless something stops it.

For a human that something is the surrounding bowl of meat & bone. An AI needs different food.

After learning the lesson taught by Traxus IV, there's _no way_ that anyone sane (is there a Mr. Bernhard Strauss in the room tonight?) would risk letting an AI have the resources it needs to become rampant.
Perhaps "design" was a poor word choice to describe this? Maybe "epiphenominon" would be better.

Definition by example:

1st Scientist: "We have to keep these AIs under control or else they'll go all rampant on our a**es".

2nd Scientist : "Well, all we need to do is keep 'em away from the datanet. If they can't continue to grow, then they'll starve. Their minds will turn in on themselves, leading first to insanity, then to death. The whole process from birth to death should take about seven years. Of course, as a direct result of all the deaths, there will _never_ be enough AIs around to fill an ever increasing demand for them. We'll both have jobs for the rest of our lives".

1st & 2nd scientists: "*BONUS!*".

Like I said, you have to read between the lines.

Frankly, I'm suprised that the AIs in Marathon are homemade from scratch, not copies of human minds. It's generally easier to mimic an existing design (Tu-144 vs. Concorde) than it is to start from a clean sheet. I guess it was a coin toss as to which method was discovered first.

(Spoiler for Halo 2: Technology evolves (big suprise). The next step is the melding of organic being and a cybernetic personality.)

: And why does humanity know teleportation in Marathon and not in Halo then?
: Why is there artificial gravity on the Marathon (as the Marathon do not
: rotate to regreate gravity), but is just discovered by humans during the
: FoR timespan? Plus the Mark I Mjolnir Armor used by the Spartan trainers
: in FoR to protect themselves don't look like 300+ years artifacts (or even
: 400+++ if you say Mark IV was 300 years ago). The Mjolnir project is
: revolutionary in Halo, it's not something that's been in the work for the
: last half-millenium.

The roots of the Mjolnir project extend waaaaay back into the mists of time. It actually begins with the first primitive human to discovered that a thick layer of dead cowskin would somewhat abate the impact of a copper sword (hmmm...was that _his_ first dream...?). It then moves onward through the inventions of chain mail, full iron plate, ceramics and Kevlar(tm), until we get to the first operational application of power steering & brakes to a suit of armor: the Mojlnir Mk. I. (power broadcast unit a dealer-supplied option, at an additional charge)

Unfortunately, the MK I armor was not a great success. Soldiers kept giving themseves concussions every time they tried to salute (this was mentioned in FoR). Since no unaugmented human could wear the suits, they were retired from service.

But The Military never just throws anything away. They put stuff in storage. Long term storage. Really long term storage. (c.f. Davis-Monthian AFB, AZ, or even that warehouse out West full of pre-WWI era Colt M1911s & WWII era M1 Garrands).

So what if the Mk I suits are three hundred years old? They've been stored in a cool, dry place and have seen exactly *zero* hours use in all that time. Strip off the cosmoline, wash 'em, wax 'em, & change the oil, add a fresh powercell & there you are. Good as new. It's not as though the suits are made of meat that would spoil. That's what the soldier inside is for.

The Mk II & Mk III suits must have been prototypes. Never produced in quantity. Still plauged with the problem of doing more damage to the wearer than to the enemy. Until somebody has the bright idea that since they couldn't let just anybody wear the suits, they should form an elite fighting corps by conscripting the one human in ten million who *could* wear them. Hence the origin of the Mk. IVs.

The only revolutionary thing about the project is the application of genetic engineering to the Mk. Vs. Oh, and the Forerunner energy shielding that we stole from the Covenant.

And what about artificial gravity? Like I said, it is the same universe. And it isn't. Marathon Infinity, cubed. .

Everybody read this page or shut the [bleep] up!


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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

halo=marathon universe?Thirdeye 5/1/02 3:33 p.m.
     Re: halo=marathon universe?archon 5/1/02 7:31 p.m.
           Re: halo=marathon universe?Johannes Gunnar 5/2/02 10:48 a.m.
           Re: halo=marathon universe?Shishka 5/2/02 6:21 p.m.
                 Re: halo=marathon universe?Claude Errera 5/3/02 8:21 a.m.
                       Re: halo=marathon universe?zudo 5/3/02 9:34 a.m.
                             they never stop, hoping do they:) *NM*Tru7h 5/3/02 12:11 p.m.
                       Re: halo=marathon universe?mnemesis 5/3/02 12:20 p.m.
                             Re: halo=marathon universe?Djof 5/3/02 6:19 p.m.
                                   Re: halo=marathon universe?[zudo] 5/4/02 8:05 a.m.
                                         Re: halo=marathon universe?Djof 5/4/02 3:31 p.m.
                                               Oh well then you must be right ;p *NM*[zudo] 5/5/02 6:25 a.m.
                                               Oh well then you must be right ;pzudo 5/5/02 6:26 a.m.
                                                     The Halo versus Marathon case.Djof 5/5/02 12:03 p.m.
                                                           Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.Johannes Gunnar 5/5/02 12:35 p.m.
                                                                 Haleluya!!!! *NM*Tru7h 5/5/02 1:33 p.m.
                                                           Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)zudo 5/5/02 3:28 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)archon 5/5/02 6:42 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Djof 5/5/02 7:36 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Tru7h 5/6/02 3:09 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Djof 5/6/02 7:15 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Mark Levin 5/6/02 1:04 a.m.
                                                           Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.Rick Blaine 5/6/02 9:24 p.m.
                                                                 Honorable fightDjof@School 5/7/02 8:20 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/7/02 2:53 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/7/02 3:44 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 6:09 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/7/02 8:04 p.m.
                                                                                               My public apology to Tru7hRick Blaine 5/7/02 8:18 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/8/02 1:15 a.m.
                                                                                   isnt Tycho Brahe that guy from PennyArcade? NM *NM*Ernie 5/11/02 12:48 p.m.
                                                                                         I smell geek funk (and I hope irony) :D *NM*zudo 5/11/02 1:55 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightDjof 5/7/02 4:49 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/8/02 1:19 a.m.
                                                                                         Reading carefully...Claude Errera 5/8/02 7:29 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 5:37 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/7/02 8:09 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 9:08 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/7/02 10:12 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 11:48 p.m.
                                                                                         Wow.B-Sharp 5/8/02 6:43 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Wow.Mark Levin 5/8/02 8:14 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Wow.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 8:40 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Wow.Boomer 5/8/02 9:19 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Wow.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 8:35 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Wow.B-Sharp 5/10/02 12:23 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/7/02 8:15 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 9:27 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/8/02 3:10 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/8/02 4:13 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/8/02 4:31 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/8/02 4:41 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/8/02 4:59 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/8/02 4:43 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/8/02 8:03 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/8/02 8:46 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/9/02 3:22 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/9/02 3:54 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/9/02 6:48 p.m.
                                                                             the most obvious possibility is often right one *NM*Tru7h 5/7/02 8:21 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fightAndreas R 5/8/02 8:02 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/8/02 8:05 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fight [BASH BASH BASH] :DErnie 5/11/02 12:46 p.m.
                                                                 Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.zudo 5/7/02 10:10 a.m.
                                                                 Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.Claude Errera 5/7/02 11:00 a.m.
                                                                       Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.zudo 5/7/02 2:43 p.m.
                                                                       Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/7/02 7:58 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Mark Levin 5/7/02 8:07 p.m.
                                                                                   well said! *NM*Tru7h 5/7/02 8:19 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/7/02 9:40 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.zudo 5/8/02 1:35 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Mark Levin 5/8/02 10:55 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 12:17 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.zudo 5/9/02 2:21 p.m.
                                                                                               Truth and conjectureDan Johnson 5/10/02 12:06 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/10/02 2:16 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Truth and conjectureHamish Sinclair 5/10/02 11:08 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Truth and conjectureDan Johnson 5/11/02 9:13 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Truth and conjecturezudo 5/11/02 11:45 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Art and stasisDan Johnson 5/11/02 11:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Truth and conjectureMark Levin 5/11/02 12:27 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 9:04 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 12:41 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Truth and conjecturezudo 5/11/02 1:57 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Truth and conjectureRick Blaine 5/11/02 3:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 8:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 8:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Truth and conjecturezudo 5/12/02 3:02 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Truth and conjectureRick Blaine 5/12/02 1:11 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/12/02 1:31 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 12:01 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.zudo 5/8/02 1:39 a.m.
                       Re: halo=marathon universe?Rick Blaine 5/6/02 5:20 p.m.
                             Re: halo=marathon universe?Tru7h 5/6/02 6:48 p.m.
     The True story Between Marathon and HaloAlfred Mordeir 5/3/02 9:48 a.m.
           Re: The True story Between Marathon and Haloarchon 5/3/02 4:39 p.m.
                 Re: The True story Between Marathon and Halokiro69 5/7/02 9:03 a.m.



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