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Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.
Posted By: Rick BlaineDate: 5/6/02 9:24 p.m.

In Response To: The Halo versus Marathon case. (Djof)

: The main arguments that Halo and Marathon are in the same universe are based
: on "words" or "things" that are found in both games. I
: went at HBO and did a search, and digged those out

I'll refrain from pointing out that if all you have are "words" (ideas) and "things" (objects), then you have just described the nature of the entire universe.

Ideas and objects. Two sides of the same coin. Bonded together from the beginning of time.

There seems to be a lot of this going around.

Aristotle's Law of the Excluded Middle can go get stuffed. Sometimes a thing can be both true & false at the same time. Sometimes the coin lands edge-on.

Your side is wrong. And so is my side. Everything depends on your definition of a timeline. Or of a universe.

There's the Unformatted KYT Terminal and the third Cortana epistle to consider, among other tasty tidbits, but that's a posting for another lifetime. For now I'll simply point out the flaws in (all but one of) the following arguments, in the vain hope of saving all you heretics out there from the fires of eternal damnation.

You are all so very, very welcome.

And I *still* dont know what it was he saw in you humans.

: - The "Marathon
: class cruiser" that is talked about in FoR is one of the
: "words" that link the two. It does not describe the Marathon
: colony ship, wich was made out of Deimos, one of Mars' moon. (Not really
: the size of ship you could call a cruiser)

Chester Nimitz was considerably smaller than CVN-76 (U.S.S. Ronald W. Reagan), the latest Nimitz-class aircraft carrier. Does size really matter?

And even if it does, weren't the Marathon-class ships retired for being _too big_ to produce in the quantities needed for combat operations?

: - The Marathon/Halo logo isn't used the same way in Halo as it was in
: Marathon. In Marathon, it is the ship's symbol (hollowed moon), in Halo it
: is UNSC's symbol.

Ever watch Star Trek(tm)? Once upon a time, that little gold symbol on Capt. Kirks' uniform was the symbol only of NCC-1701(tm) (no bloody A,B, C,or D). Now it's the symbol for all of StarFleet(tm). This is a great way to spread the cachet of a small subgroup among the members of a larger organization.

Revisionist history is a wonderful thing, too. Especially when there's money involved.

(Anybody wanna start a pool on the meaning of the Marathon symbol in Forerunnerese? Put me down for "W'rkncacnter"! It would explain a great many things...)

: - Again, the timelines don't match. And that says a lot, unless you're
: dreaming... again.

Hmmm....
2247- Marathon departs Mars orbit (sublight), with the 10 Mk. IV cyborgs aboard.
2552- Battle of Halo, over & done with. (with new & improved Mk V cyborg)
2773- Marathon arrives at Tau Ceti (the cyborgs are *still* Mk. IVs, having received no upgrades during their time in cyrosleep).

(Does anyone know where your soul goes when you're a corpsesickle? I'll bet the Master Chief (or was it Arthur Frane) does, even if he still thinks it was all just a dream... and isn't he just great at spreading death, destruction, & chaos around wherever he goes?)

(And just why did Halesy insist on keeping the original John 117, when she had a perfectly good force-grown clone right there that she could use without having to risk exposure of her secret (and completely illegal (and immoral)) operation? What did the original *really* have that the clone didn't?)

2787- Colony established.
2794- Marathon attacked.

What's wrong with this picture? Darned if I know! Though I could be dreaming again, since all of Marathon Infinity doesn't even take place in the same universe. Or timeline, if you prefer.

: - UNSC (United Nations Space Command) in Halo and UESC (United Earth Space
: Command) in Marathon.

Governmental organizations do change their names, though it ususlly ocurs after either a major consolidation of function, or a severe crisis (food riots, or perhaps full-scale revolution?), when the Powers That Be feel the need to project a kinder & gentler image by giving the proles the illusion of actual policy change.

: - Still no rampancy found in Halo. Only "smart" and
: "dumb" AIs. The firsts being the nearest to what a rampant AI
: is, but they die after 7 years because of the over-use of their
: "brain" capacity. (I says this might not apply to Cortana, as
: she is the first of a new kind... but this has nothing to do with the
: present point.)

Durandal was created as a "dumb" AI door-opener but he somehow (Berhnard Strauss?) exceeded his limitations and became "smart" enough to become rampant.
"Smart" AIs, on the other hand, are *DESIGNED FROM BIRTH TO DIE IN SEVEN YEARS* specifically to prevent them from becoming rampant. They're delibrately kept in "too small a pot", so to speak.

(I don't think this was ever spelled out explicitly in FoR, you have to read between the lines.)

If I were in her situation, I'd be looking to escape, too .

(Did anyone else find the story of her origin absolute horsehockey? Consider two identical twins. While they do share the same geneotype, they don't necessarily share the same phenotype. They don't have identical fingerprints, or retinal or iris patterns. These patterns are fractal in origin, and if we took out their brains they wouldn't have the same connvolutions, nevermind them having the same thought processes.

Of course, a freshly cloned adult brain (or a developing fetal brain) would be a perfect tabula rasa for an entity capable of taking advantage of just such a situation, especially if there were another being in close proximity to which it was bonded from the beginning of time... but I digress... yet again :))

: - Just how AIs are handled in both universes. No terminals in Halo, no
: holographic personification of AIs in Marathon (In Halo every AIs have a
: choosen apparence as explained in FoR.).

Once you understand that the technology aboard UESC Marathon was "locked-down" 305 years before Halo, this so-called conflict resolves itself.

: - No patern buffer in Halo nor teleportation (at least until Cortana learns
: how to do it from the Forunners). It could be explained by saying that
: Marathon might occur after Halo, but that is impossible due to the fact
: that in Marathon you are a Mjolnir (another word linking, part of what
: Claude calls the "hommage") Mark IV cyborg, and in Halo you wear
: a Mjolnir Mark V battle powered armor. IV being Halo: The Fall of Reach ,
: the novel that is the prequel to Halo: Combat Evolved.

Perhaps the only valid point your side has scored so far. Of course, the teleporters aboard UESC Marathon could have all been recalled for being a safety hazzard...

"Where's Johnny?", asked Mama.
Over there. And there. And here's his kidney right on top of my foot!

And you forgot one: no MBTs in Marathon, even though they had all that parking space on G3 Sunbathing :)

: Djof
: "Je me souviens"

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

halo=marathon universe?Thirdeye 5/1/02 3:33 p.m.
     Re: halo=marathon universe?archon 5/1/02 7:31 p.m.
           Re: halo=marathon universe?Johannes Gunnar 5/2/02 10:48 a.m.
           Re: halo=marathon universe?Shishka 5/2/02 6:21 p.m.
                 Re: halo=marathon universe?Claude Errera 5/3/02 8:21 a.m.
                       Re: halo=marathon universe?zudo 5/3/02 9:34 a.m.
                             they never stop, hoping do they:) *NM*Tru7h 5/3/02 12:11 p.m.
                       Re: halo=marathon universe?mnemesis 5/3/02 12:20 p.m.
                             Re: halo=marathon universe?Djof 5/3/02 6:19 p.m.
                                   Re: halo=marathon universe?[zudo] 5/4/02 8:05 a.m.
                                         Re: halo=marathon universe?Djof 5/4/02 3:31 p.m.
                                               Oh well then you must be right ;p *NM*[zudo] 5/5/02 6:25 a.m.
                                               Oh well then you must be right ;pzudo 5/5/02 6:26 a.m.
                                                     The Halo versus Marathon case.Djof 5/5/02 12:03 p.m.
                                                           Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.Johannes Gunnar 5/5/02 12:35 p.m.
                                                                 Haleluya!!!! *NM*Tru7h 5/5/02 1:33 p.m.
                                                           Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)zudo 5/5/02 3:28 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)archon 5/5/02 6:42 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Djof 5/5/02 7:36 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Tru7h 5/6/02 3:09 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Djof 5/6/02 7:15 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Halo vs Marathon (mild spoiler)Mark Levin 5/6/02 1:04 a.m.
                                                           Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.Rick Blaine 5/6/02 9:24 p.m.
                                                                 Honorable fightDjof@School 5/7/02 8:20 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/7/02 2:53 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/7/02 3:44 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 6:09 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/7/02 8:04 p.m.
                                                                                               My public apology to Tru7hRick Blaine 5/7/02 8:18 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/8/02 1:15 a.m.
                                                                                   isnt Tycho Brahe that guy from PennyArcade? NM *NM*Ernie 5/11/02 12:48 p.m.
                                                                                         I smell geek funk (and I hope irony) :D *NM*zudo 5/11/02 1:55 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightDjof 5/7/02 4:49 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/8/02 1:19 a.m.
                                                                                         Reading carefully...Claude Errera 5/8/02 7:29 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 5:37 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/7/02 8:09 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 9:08 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/7/02 10:12 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 11:48 p.m.
                                                                                         Wow.B-Sharp 5/8/02 6:43 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Wow.Mark Levin 5/8/02 8:14 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Wow.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 8:40 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Wow.Boomer 5/8/02 9:19 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Wow.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 8:35 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Wow.B-Sharp 5/10/02 12:23 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/7/02 8:15 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/7/02 9:27 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/8/02 3:10 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/8/02 4:13 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Honorable fightzudo 5/8/02 4:31 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Honorable fightMark Levin 5/8/02 4:41 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/8/02 4:59 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/8/02 4:43 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/8/02 8:03 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/8/02 8:46 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/9/02 3:22 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Honorable fightRick Blaine 5/9/02 3:54 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/9/02 6:48 p.m.
                                                                             the most obvious possibility is often right one *NM*Tru7h 5/7/02 8:21 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fightAndreas R 5/8/02 8:02 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Honorable fightTru7h 5/8/02 8:05 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Honorable fight [BASH BASH BASH] :DErnie 5/11/02 12:46 p.m.
                                                                 Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.zudo 5/7/02 10:10 a.m.
                                                                 Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.Claude Errera 5/7/02 11:00 a.m.
                                                                       Re: The Halo versus Marathon case.zudo 5/7/02 2:43 p.m.
                                                                       Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/7/02 7:58 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Mark Levin 5/7/02 8:07 p.m.
                                                                                   well said! *NM*Tru7h 5/7/02 8:19 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/7/02 9:40 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.zudo 5/8/02 1:35 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Mark Levin 5/8/02 10:55 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 12:17 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.zudo 5/9/02 2:21 p.m.
                                                                                               Truth and conjectureDan Johnson 5/10/02 12:06 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/10/02 2:16 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Truth and conjectureHamish Sinclair 5/10/02 11:08 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Truth and conjectureDan Johnson 5/11/02 9:13 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Truth and conjecturezudo 5/11/02 11:45 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Art and stasisDan Johnson 5/11/02 11:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Truth and conjectureMark Levin 5/11/02 12:27 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 9:04 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 12:41 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Truth and conjecturezudo 5/11/02 1:57 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Truth and conjectureRick Blaine 5/11/02 3:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 8:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/11/02 8:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Truth and conjecturezudo 5/12/02 3:02 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Truth and conjectureRick Blaine 5/12/02 1:11 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: Truth and conjecture:: Beer Can :: 5/12/02 1:31 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.Rick Blaine 5/8/02 12:01 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Conjecture: The Marathon Multiverse.zudo 5/8/02 1:39 a.m.
                       Re: halo=marathon universe?Rick Blaine 5/6/02 5:20 p.m.
                             Re: halo=marathon universe?Tru7h 5/6/02 6:48 p.m.
     The True story Between Marathon and HaloAlfred Mordeir 5/3/02 9:48 a.m.
           Re: The True story Between Marathon and Haloarchon 5/3/02 4:39 p.m.
                 Re: The True story Between Marathon and Halokiro69 5/7/02 9:03 a.m.



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