Re: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us


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Re: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us

Posted By: Forrest of B.org Date: 9/10/11 1:14 a.m.
In Response To: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us (poenadare)

: Forrest, how old are you? I associate this comment with young people who
: think they've gotten older and wiser.
I'm about 3/5 your age and don't think I'm particularly wiser than I've ever been; learned some things maybe, calmed down a little, but if anything I'm not even as sharp as I used to be. Years of depression will tend to dull a mind. But I was born a crotchety old man and am just waiting until my hair turns grey enough that I can plausibly stand in public parks and complain about the damn kids on my lawn. (For that matter I actually do get actual kids on my actual lawn and it does actually bug me; I live on the shortest route between a high school and the nearest convenience store).
: I'm a 51 yrold American. I've read ooodles of world history and economics and
: am by no means an expert. I believe comparisons to Rome are flights of
: fancy.
: A ton of American dollars disappeared over the past ten years into the
: pockets of banksters and warmongers. The physical and economic devastation
: is naked eye visible from space I say hyperbolicly.
: Empires in decline can't afford to do this kind of thing more than once. I'm
: proud to say America could easily produce decade-long world misery two,
: maybe three more times before we would have to accept our own heat-death.
I'm not saying we're in decline in a wealth-and-power sense. The comparison to Rome is apt for Rome's eventual growth into the single unchallenged power of its known world, and the slow corruption of its republic into an empire.
Last century America emerged from being a big but isolationist developing frontier into one of the great powers of the world, then a superpower after WWII, and then a hyperpower with the fall of the USSR. There are no single superpowers standing in equal opposition to the US now, so we are like Rome at it's height in that respect.
Likewise, over our history we have developed from a country founded on liberty and popular involvement in government (and very vocally proud of that fact) to one where power is increasingly concentrated in fewer hands, the limits on the exercise of that power are fewer and fewer, the people are less and less involved in the exercise of that power, and "freedom" is a meaningless patriotic buzzword that most people don't care to understand. Some things have improved, too, some greatly, and it's not a foregone conclusion yet, but it's very easy to foresee America drifting slowly toward an empire as the decades wear on. That's what I mean by "slowly decaying".
Rome didn't just have one big blunder and disappear overnight either. One could make the (tenuous I'll admit) argument that Rome didn't completely fall until the World Wars: the eastern half lived on in the Byzantine Empire until the 15th century, which was then conquered by Turks but remained geopolitically the same power in the form of the Ottoman Empire for another five centuries until the interbellum. Meanwhile the western half was pseudo-continued by the authority of the Roman Catholic Church in the form of the Holy Roman Empire in France and later Germany, and the heritage of that was (disputably) later taken up by the Nazis and finally put away after the war. Why do you think Romans used the Nazi salute? It's the other way around...
Point being, it's not like Rome just overspent on one big war and then fell apart. It takes a really long time for an institutionalized empire to fall apart under its own weight.
: America: misdirected, mismanaged, mistaken; yes. Decayed? We're just now
: getting the frayed edges old world countries have enjoyed far longer than
: us.
Old World countries which have had their turns as budding republics, gone on to become massive empires, and then collapsed, and are now fortunate enough to retain their core territories. They are decayed compared to their past selves. They are over the hill. I didn't say America was decayed. I said it was decaying. If we're are starting to get the same rough edges as old countries which are now decayed, what does that make us?
Anyway, my original comment was just a snarky Iron Man joke built from tropes with no serious thought behind them, but your implication that I'm some uppity young kid who thinks he knows more than he does upset me. I know precisely how much I know: more than most people bother to learn, but still not nearly enough.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Blessed Are The Workers! poenadare 9/5/11 2:12 p.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! Jabberwok 9/5/11 4:31 p.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! chiasaur11 9/5/11 5:21 p.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! Jabberwok 9/5/11 5:26 p.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! poenadare 9/5/11 7:39 p.m.

The Ultimate Question Godot 9/5/11 10:45 p.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! Jabberwok 9/6/11 9:01 a.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! poenadare 9/6/11 9:50 a.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! Jabberwok 9/6/11 7:23 p.m.

Re: Blessed Are The Workers! Forrest of B.org 9/6/11 9:04 p.m.

New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us poenadare 9/7/11 4:38 a.m.

Re: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us Forrest of B.org 9/10/11 1:14 a.m.

Re: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us poenadare 9/10/11 3:13 a.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
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: I'm about 3/5 your age and don't think I'm particularly wiser than I've ever : been; learned some things maybe, calmed down a little, but if anything I'm : not even as sharp as I used to be. Years of depression will tend to dull a : mind. But I was born a crotchety old man and am just waiting until my hair : turns grey enough that I can plausibly stand in public parks and complain : about the damn kids on my lawn. (For that matter I actually do get actual : kids on my actual lawn and it does actually bug me; I live on the shortest : route between a high school and the nearest convenience store). : I'm not saying we're in decline in a wealth-and-power sense. The comparison : to Rome is apt for Rome's eventual growth into the single unchallenged : power of its known world, and the slow corruption of its republic into an : empire. : Last century America emerged from being a big but isolationist developing : frontier into one of the great powers of the world, then a superpower : after WWII, and then a hyperpower with the fall of the USSR. There are no : single superpowers standing in equal opposition to the US now, so we are : like Rome at it's height in that respect. : Likewise, over our history we have developed from a country founded on : liberty and popular involvement in government (and very vocally proud of : that fact) to one where power is increasingly concentrated in fewer hands, : the limits on the exercise of that power are fewer and fewer, the people : are less and less involved in the exercise of that power, and : "freedom" is a meaningless patriotic buzzword that most people : don't care to understand. Some things have improved, too, some greatly, : and it's not a foregone conclusion yet, but it's very easy to foresee : America drifting slowly toward an empire as the decades wear on. That's : what I mean by "slowly decaying". : Rome didn't just have one big blunder and disappear overnight either. One : could make the (tenuous I'll admit) argument that Rome didn't completely : fall until the World Wars: the eastern half lived on in the Byzantine : Empire until the 15th century, which was then conquered by Turks but : remained geopolitically the same power in the form of the Ottoman Empire : for another five centuries until the interbellum. Meanwhile the western : half was pseudo-continued by the authority of the Roman Catholic Church in : the form of the Holy Roman Empire in France and later Germany, and the : heritage of that was (disputably) later taken up by the Nazis and finally : put away after the war. Why do you think Romans used the Nazi salute? It's : the other way around... : Point being, it's not like Rome just overspent on one big war and then fell : apart. It takes a really long time for an institutionalized empire to fall : apart under its own weight. : Old World countries which have had their turns as budding republics, gone on : to become massive empires, and then collapsed, and are now fortunate : enough to retain their core territories. They are decayed compared to : their past selves. They are over the hill. I didn't say America was : decayed. I said it was decay ing . If we're are starting to get the same : rough edges as old countries which are now decayed, what does that make : us? : Anyway, my original comment was just a snarky Iron Man joke built from tropes : with no serious thought behind them, but your implication that I'm some : uppity young kid who thinks he knows more than he does upset me. I know : precisely how much I know: more than most people bother to learn, but : still not nearly enough.

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Blessed Are The Workers!	poenadare	9/5/11 2:12 p.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	Jabberwok	9/5/11 4:31 p.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	chiasaur11	9/5/11 5:21 p.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	Jabberwok	9/5/11 5:26 p.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	poenadare	9/5/11 7:39 p.m.
The Ultimate Question	Godot	9/5/11 10:45 p.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	Jabberwok	9/6/11 9:01 a.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	poenadare	9/6/11 9:50 a.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	Jabberwok	9/6/11 7:23 p.m.
Re: Blessed Are The Workers!	Forrest of B.org	9/6/11 9:04 p.m.
New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us	poenadare	9/7/11 4:38 a.m.
Re: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us	Forrest of B.org	9/10/11 1:14 a.m.
Re: New Monarchy of New Rome Will Save Us	poenadare	9/10/11 3:13 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : I'm about 3/5 your age and don't think I'm particularly wiser than I've ever : been; learned some things maybe, calmed down a little, but if anything I'm : not even as sharp as I used to be. Years of depression will tend to dull a : mind. But I was born a crotchety old man and am just waiting until my hair : turns grey enough that I can plausibly stand in public parks and complain : about the damn kids on my lawn. (For that matter I actually do get actual : kids on my actual lawn and it does actually bug me; I live on the shortest : route between a high school and the nearest convenience store). : I'm not saying we're in decline in a wealth-and-power sense. The comparison : to Rome is apt for Rome's eventual growth into the single unchallenged : power of its known world, and the slow corruption of its republic into an : empire. : Last century America emerged from being a big but isolationist developing : frontier into one of the great powers of the world, then a superpower : after WWII, and then a hyperpower with the fall of the USSR. There are no : single superpowers standing in equal opposition to the US now, so we are : like Rome at it's height in that respect. : Likewise, over our history we have developed from a country founded on : liberty and popular involvement in government (and very vocally proud of : that fact) to one where power is increasingly concentrated in fewer hands, : the limits on the exercise of that power are fewer and fewer, the people : are less and less involved in the exercise of that power, and : "freedom" is a meaningless patriotic buzzword that most people : don't care to understand. Some things have improved, too, some greatly, : and it's not a foregone conclusion yet, but it's very easy to foresee : America drifting slowly toward an empire as the decades wear on. That's : what I mean by "slowly decaying". : Rome didn't just have one big blunder and disappear overnight either. One : could make the (tenuous I'll admit) argument that Rome didn't completely : fall until the World Wars: the eastern half lived on in the Byzantine : Empire until the 15th century, which was then conquered by Turks but : remained geopolitically the same power in the form of the Ottoman Empire : for another five centuries until the interbellum. Meanwhile the western : half was pseudo-continued by the authority of the Roman Catholic Church in : the form of the Holy Roman Empire in France and later Germany, and the : heritage of that was (disputably) later taken up by the Nazis and finally : put away after the war. Why do you think Romans used the Nazi salute? It's : the other way around... : Point being, it's not like Rome just overspent on one big war and then fell : apart. It takes a really long time for an institutionalized empire to fall : apart under its own weight. : Old World countries which have had their turns as budding republics, gone on : to become massive empires, and then collapsed, and are now fortunate : enough to retain their core territories. They are decayed compared to : their past selves. They are over the hill. I didn't say America was : decayed. I said it was decay ing . If we're are starting to get the same : rough edges as old countries which are now decayed, what does that make : us? : Anyway, my original comment was just a snarky Iron Man joke built from tropes : with no serious thought behind them, but your implication that I'm some : uppity young kid who thinks he knows more than he does upset me. I know : precisely how much I know: more than most people bother to learn, but : still not nearly enough.
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