Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones


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Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones

Posted By: Bob-B-Q Date: 6/30/21 9:51 a.m.
In Response To: Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones (Forrest of B.org)

: I did think about that after I posted last night, and thought that having a
: central control computer doesn't rule out having organic brains handling
: the nitty-gritty on the far end.
True, although I don't see that necessitating on-board brains as opposed to just having console jockeys supervise the drones remotely if needed. Bureaucracies love desk jobs, after all.
: You would think so, but then if they could do that, why would they use
: slaves? From an in-universe perspective, not a narrative one.
Beyond the reasons already speculated? Looking at it from a different angle, is it safe to assume the Pfhor are better at organic-cybernetic integration than they are at AI? If we include the original concept behind the cyborg tanks, Rob's remarks in the Scrapbook indicate the Pfhor are not highly skilled in this field either, struggling to copy mature, mass-produced human battleroid tech even with unrestricted access to original data.
And we don't have to rely only on those questionably canon scraps: there's also the enslavement of the S'pht to consider. The sheer inefficiency of having to actively suppress every compiler's desire to revolt for a full thousand years, the Pfhor's inability to prevent enslaved S'pht from communicating with Durandal or the player, and that one terminal about questionable surgery on The Hard Stuff Rules could altogether suggest the Pfhor aren't any better at working on S'pht than on humans.
The Pfhor do have some presumably home-grown cyborgs, notably the ones used to control the S'pht. We're not told much about these, but the one we see in M1 (called a 'mutant' by Durandal) is immobile, helpless, and frankly pathetic. Looking at it in ShapeFusion, I don't think it even has legs. The Hunters might be cyborgs, or Pfhor in power armor, or simply bipedal machines. I'm leaving them out for the moment since we don't know enough to say.
Just putting a brain into a machine may seem easier at first glance, but it might be the opposite. A human brain would require, at the minimum, a constant supply of oxygen, water and nutrition, with equivalent waste product removal, and probably some form of hormone supply/regulation. Even if we assume Pfhor nervous systems are more amenable to circuit integration than human ones, the biological requirements aren't likely to radically differ. The brain-in-a-box must include organs or mechanisms to meet its needs, increasing its cost and complexity over just using inorganic circuits. I suppose they could theoretically have brains in base stations acting remotely, but in that case it would be far cheaper to just use the aforementioned console jockeys.
Cheapness brings us back to the possible advantages of simple, organic slave labor. BOBs in chains, so to speak, don't require implanted technology to perform labor or serve as grunt infantry. Nor do they require modification to survive in environments known to be Pfhor compatible. There would be an ever-present possibility of revolt, but this clearly never impeded the institution of slavery in Pfhor history, nor did it in real life.
In sum, I think it's possible that just as the Pfhor seem to lag behind humanity in AI technology, whether for cultural or technological reasons, they are perhaps also behind the UESC in cyborg engineering. Thus a reliance on 'primitive' labor despite the availability of more advanced alternatives.
None of this disproves the idea of putting Pfhor brains in drones, though I'm skeptical that it would be a more practical solution than the other options. It would certainly add another layer of gruesomeness to the oppressive, collectivist nature of their society, however.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Forrest of B.org 6/27/21 11:52 p.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones ukimalefu 6/28/21 2:19 a.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Forrest of B.org 6/28/21 8:39 a.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones VikingBoyBilly 6/29/21 4:09 p.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Bob-B-Q 6/28/21 9:57 a.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Forrest of B.org 6/28/21 10:21 a.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Bob-B-Q 6/30/21 9:51 a.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones VikingBoyBilly 6/30/21 11:04 a.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Forrest of B.org 6/30/21 12:12 p.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones Forrest of B.org 6/30/21 3:21 p.m.

Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones VikingBoyBilly 6/30/21 3:57 p.m.

this is my headcanon now *NM* VikingBoyBilly 6/29/21 2:13 p.m.

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Pre-2004 Posts

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: True, although I don't see that necessitating on-board brains as opposed to : just having console jockeys supervise the drones remotely if needed. : Bureaucracies love desk jobs, after all. : Beyond the reasons already speculated? Looking at it from a different angle, : is it safe to assume the Pfhor are better at organic-cybernetic : integration than they are at AI? If we include the original concept behind : the cyborg tanks, Rob's remarks in the Scrapbook indicate the Pfhor are : not highly skilled in this field either, struggling to copy mature, : mass-produced human battleroid tech even with unrestricted access to : original data. : And we don't have to rely only on those questionably canon scraps: there's : also the enslavement of the S'pht to consider. The sheer inefficiency of : having to actively suppress every compiler's desire to revolt for a full : thousand years, the Pfhor's inability to prevent enslaved S'pht from : communicating with Durandal or the player, and that one terminal about : questionable surgery on The Hard Stuff Rules could altogether suggest : the Pfhor aren't any better at working on S'pht than on humans. : The Pfhor do have some presumably home-grown cyborgs, notably the ones used : to control the S'pht. We're not told much about these, but the one we see : in M1 (called a 'mutant' by Durandal) is immobile, helpless, and frankly : pathetic. Looking at it in ShapeFusion, I don't think it even has legs. : The Hunters might be cyborgs, or Pfhor in power armor, or simply bipedal : machines. I'm leaving them out for the moment since we don't know enough : to say. : Just putting a brain into a machine may seem easier at first glance, but it : might be the opposite. A human brain would require, at the minimum, a : constant supply of oxygen, water and nutrition, with equivalent waste : product removal, and probably some form of hormone supply/regulation. Even : if we assume Pfhor nervous systems are more amenable to circuit : integration than human ones, the biological requirements aren't likely to : radically differ. The brain-in-a-box must include organs or mechanisms to : meet its needs, increasing its cost and complexity over just using : inorganic circuits. I suppose they could theoretically have brains in base : stations acting remotely, but in that case it would be far cheaper to just : use the aforementioned console jockeys. : Cheapness brings us back to the possible advantages of simple, organic slave : labor. BOBs in chains, so to speak, don't require implanted technology to : perform labor or serve as grunt infantry. Nor do they require modification : to survive in environments known to be Pfhor compatible. There would be an : ever-present possibility of revolt, but this clearly never impeded the : institution of slavery in Pfhor history, nor did it in real life. : In sum, I think it's possible that just as the Pfhor seem to lag behind : humanity in AI technology, whether for cultural or technological reasons, : they are perhaps also behind the UESC in cyborg engineering. Thus a : reliance on 'primitive' labor despite the availability of more advanced : alternatives. : None of this disproves the idea of putting Pfhor brains in drones, though I'm : skeptical that it would be a more practical solution than the other : options. It would certainly add another layer of gruesomeness to the : oppressive, collectivist nature of their society, however.

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The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Forrest of B.org	6/27/21 11:52 p.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	ukimalefu	6/28/21 2:19 a.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Forrest of B.org	6/28/21 8:39 a.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	VikingBoyBilly	6/29/21 4:09 p.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Bob-B-Q	6/28/21 9:57 a.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Forrest of B.org	6/28/21 10:21 a.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Bob-B-Q	6/30/21 9:51 a.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	VikingBoyBilly	6/30/21 11:04 a.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Forrest of B.org	6/30/21 12:12 p.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	Forrest of B.org	6/30/21 3:21 p.m.
Re: The terrifying secret of Pfhor drones	VikingBoyBilly	6/30/21 3:57 p.m.
this is my headcanon now NM	VikingBoyBilly	6/29/21 2:13 p.m.



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	Message: : True, although I don't see that necessitating on-board brains as opposed to : just having console jockeys supervise the drones remotely if needed. : Bureaucracies love desk jobs, after all. : Beyond the reasons already speculated? Looking at it from a different angle, : is it safe to assume the Pfhor are better at organic-cybernetic : integration than they are at AI? If we include the original concept behind : the cyborg tanks, Rob's remarks in the Scrapbook indicate the Pfhor are : not highly skilled in this field either, struggling to copy mature, : mass-produced human battleroid tech even with unrestricted access to : original data. : And we don't have to rely only on those questionably canon scraps: there's : also the enslavement of the S'pht to consider. The sheer inefficiency of : having to actively suppress every compiler's desire to revolt for a full : thousand years, the Pfhor's inability to prevent enslaved S'pht from : communicating with Durandal or the player, and that one terminal about : questionable surgery on The Hard Stuff Rules could altogether suggest : the Pfhor aren't any better at working on S'pht than on humans. : The Pfhor do have some presumably home-grown cyborgs, notably the ones used : to control the S'pht. We're not told much about these, but the one we see : in M1 (called a 'mutant' by Durandal) is immobile, helpless, and frankly : pathetic. Looking at it in ShapeFusion, I don't think it even has legs. : The Hunters might be cyborgs, or Pfhor in power armor, or simply bipedal : machines. I'm leaving them out for the moment since we don't know enough : to say. : Just putting a brain into a machine may seem easier at first glance, but it : might be the opposite. A human brain would require, at the minimum, a : constant supply of oxygen, water and nutrition, with equivalent waste : product removal, and probably some form of hormone supply/regulation. Even : if we assume Pfhor nervous systems are more amenable to circuit : integration than human ones, the biological requirements aren't likely to : radically differ. The brain-in-a-box must include organs or mechanisms to : meet its needs, increasing its cost and complexity over just using : inorganic circuits. I suppose they could theoretically have brains in base : stations acting remotely, but in that case it would be far cheaper to just : use the aforementioned console jockeys. : Cheapness brings us back to the possible advantages of simple, organic slave : labor. BOBs in chains, so to speak, don't require implanted technology to : perform labor or serve as grunt infantry. Nor do they require modification : to survive in environments known to be Pfhor compatible. There would be an : ever-present possibility of revolt, but this clearly never impeded the : institution of slavery in Pfhor history, nor did it in real life. : In sum, I think it's possible that just as the Pfhor seem to lag behind : humanity in AI technology, whether for cultural or technological reasons, : they are perhaps also behind the UESC in cyborg engineering. Thus a : reliance on 'primitive' labor despite the availability of more advanced : alternatives. : None of this disproves the idea of putting Pfhor brains in drones, though I'm : skeptical that it would be a more practical solution than the other : options. It would certainly add another layer of gruesomeness to the : oppressive, collectivist nature of their society, however.
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