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Re: Maps and stories
Posted By: RyokoTKDate: 1/28/07 4:20 p.m.

In Response To: Maps and stories (MrHen)

: Short preface to my post: yeah, I agree with you. I love a good plot and
: probably enjoy it more than the average bum since I really get into
: stories and writing and the like. But when it comes down to it, Marathon
: is a game where you shoot things.

: This does not mean there cannot be puzzles or thinking or plots or cool
: looking things, but shooting things is fun.

Oh, absolutely not. I think puzzles are a great way to add depth to a level (in fact, I wrote what I think is a neat dissertation on puzzles. However, I think most people tend to unnecessarily use puzzles to make a fairly short level longer simply by having the player go over the same expanse of land twenty times. Cool-looking architecture, of course, is always welcome, but to apply that in lieu of good gameplay is inexcusable and as much of a novice mistake as neglecting both.

: Having not mapped since... oh, lord knows when, I completely agree with this.
: Plots are incredibly flexible (or, at least, I think they should be).
: Considering that nearly every event that has ever taken place in all the
: universe has occurred in a location. The location was not built for that
: event, the event occurred because the characters ended up together in that
: location.

Well said.

: Again, I agree. I tend to really demand a lot from stories and plots and get
: disappointed if I think the story is poorly written. So I remind myself
: that Marathon is a shooting game and just read the terminals for
: instructions on what to shoot.

Something that I think a lot of the community forgets at times. I think that some project leaders have this fantastic idea for a plot, and then forget that whole part where you have to go kill things and get the job done. Of course, in a first-person shooter, that's the most important part. Having a well-written story is only a benefit, though, and I wish more project leaders would spend time on really refining their storylines. In fact, that's probably what I regret the most about TGI.

: But if the terminals contain crap like spelling and grammatical errors it
: tells me I should not waste my time with a project that was obviously
: never proof-read. If the project was not taken seriously by the creators,
: than I will not either. It just shows laziness.

I have to agree with this. Proof-reading isn't hard. If you, as a project leader, can't write English fluently, it's so much better to give the task of writing to someone who can, rather than try and wing it. Look at Portal of Sigma: the sloppiest, most horrendously-written terminal text I've seen in a while. That's why I'm writing for Chapter 2 (if it ever gets released).

: The only area I may disagree with you is on monsters. I love fighting
: monsters. I would love to see new monsters to fight with clever ideas
: behind them. Part of this is because I think I have a pack full of great
: ideas in my mind involving monsters. New, awesome monsters to fight can
: make a project great.

I definitely am not saying that adding monsters is necessarily a poor thing (though Rubicon's did kinda stink -- did we really need those M1 monsters back?). However, I do urge you to look at TGI, if you haven't yet; I'm definitely fond of some of my modifications to the monsters, and all I did was alter sequences and physics. I think some of them are pretty hard, too (though I do resort to "more guys = harder" quite often).

: But they still need a map on which to roam about and die, so the maps can
: destroy an otherwise great project. Mediocre maps with great monsters is a
: great project, assuming that the monsters really are frickin' awesome.

Nonsense. About a third of EVIL is pretty poorly mapped, and even with the new monsters, there is no salvation. EVIL has some fantastic monsters, but the poor mapping really does nothing for them.

: My ranking goes Map, Monsters, Story, Weapons, Graphics, Sounds. Story gets
: third mostly because it is really hard to tell a good story in this
: medium. It is hard to tell a good story at all, actually. I think the
: chances of telling an amazing story are pretty slim.

For the record, I would probably agree. Except that the only thing that matters to me there is map. From there, none of them take preference over each other. I only really judge scenarios by how well they're mapped.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weapon?Pfhorever 1/17/07 6:36 a.m.
     Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaForrest of B.org 1/17/07 8:16 a.m.
           Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaPfhorever 1/17/07 8:32 a.m.
           Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaPfhorever 1/17/07 9:02 a.m.
                 Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaSnowCrash 1/17/07 2:34 p.m.
                       Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaPfhorever 1/17/07 3:19 p.m.
                             Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaSnowCrash 1/17/07 3:28 p.m.
                                   Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaPfhorever 1/17/07 3:30 p.m.
                       Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weaPfhorever 1/17/07 3:29 p.m.
                             I say go with the french! VIVA LA RESISTANCE! *NM*Johannes Gunnar 1/17/07 9:58 p.m.
                                   Re: I say go with the french! VIVA LA RESISTANCE!Pfhorever 1/18/07 12:03 p.m.
                                         Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/19/07 2:01 p.m.
                                               Re: Anyone home?ukimalefu 1/19/07 6:54 p.m.
                                                     Re: Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/20/07 4:46 a.m.
                                                           Re: Anyone home? *LINK* *LINK*Pfhorever 1/20/07 7:34 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Anyone home?thermoplyae 1/20/07 9:03 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/20/07 9:39 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Anyone home?thermoplyae 1/20/07 8:37 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/25/07 1:00 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Anyone home?thermoplyae 1/25/07 5:29 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Anyone home?ukimalefu 1/25/07 6:21 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Anyone home?thermoplyae 1/25/07 6:37 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Anyone home?Forrest of B.org 1/25/07 6:50 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Anyone home?thermoplyae 1/25/07 8:48 p.m.
                                                                                                           On Projects and Passive BystandersMrHen 1/26/07 5:31 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: On Projects and Passive BystandersForrest of B.org 1/26/07 8:52 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Me! All about me!MrHen 1/26/07 9:07 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Me! All about me!Forrest of B.org 1/26/07 8:20 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   I can take a look at it. :)MrHen 1/27/07 12:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: I can take a look at it. :)Forrest of B.org 1/28/07 4:40 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               awesome.MrHen 1/29/07 5:44 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Just what IS needed for a project? (Very long!)RyokoTK 1/26/07 9:53 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Heartily seconded *NM* *NM*kyjel 1/26/07 10:05 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Maps and storiesMrHen 1/27/07 12:41 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Maps and storieskyjel 1/27/07 12:59 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Maps and storiesgoran 1/27/07 6:28 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Maps and storiesRyokoTK 1/28/07 4:20 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   slight correction...MrHen 1/29/07 5:50 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: slight correction...RyokoTK 1/29/07 6:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               :) *NM*MrHen 1/29/07 8:43 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Anyone home?goran 1/26/07 5:48 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Anyone home?thermoplyae 1/26/07 6:46 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Anyone home?goran 1/26/07 6:15 a.m.
                                                                                   haha, that link is awesome *NM*MrHen 1/26/07 8:11 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Anyone home?Andrew Nagy 1/26/07 6:34 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Anyone home?Forrest of B.org 1/26/07 8:26 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Anyone home?Andrew Nagy 1/26/07 10:00 p.m.
                                                                                                     we could if you LINKED it... *NM*MrHen 1/27/07 12:10 p.m.
                                                           Re: Anyone home?ukimalefu 1/20/07 11:00 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/20/07 11:40 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Anyone home?McNutcase 1/20/07 12:15 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/20/07 12:20 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Anyone home?McNutcase 1/20/07 12:23 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Anyone home?Pfhorever 1/20/07 12:27 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Anyone home?McNutcase 1/20/07 12:31 p.m.
                                                                                               I can proof websitesMrHen 1/21/07 1:12 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Anyone home?ukimalefu 1/20/07 4:51 p.m.
     Re: Anyone ever heard of the WMaiD fusion mine weagoran 1/17/07 9:23 a.m.

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