/-/S'pht-Translator-Active/-/


Re: What makes a nice map?
Posted By: RyokoTKDate: 9/30/05 7:11 a.m.

In Response To: Re: What makes a nice map? (Forrest of B.org)

: On the other hand, avoid my big problem with mapmaking: designing the map
: like I would design a real place with the function that that place is
: supposed to have. It winds up making things extremely simple and
: straightforward, everything neatly and symmetrically arrayed, and players
: can for the most part just run straight from place to place to do what
: they came there to do. And that's boring.

: I had some notion once upon a time to first build things like that, and then
: break them (make it so the normal way is for some reason unaccessible, and
: players have to take a more convoluted route). That didn't seem to work so
: well either. Not sure why. Still boring.

: In other words I'm no good at filler; coming up with extra things to go do in
: the map besides those required by the mission objectives. And when I do
: come up with filler you can either run right through it or past it, cause
: that's how a good real-world floor plan would work. You don't want (in
: real life) people having to explore your building to get to where they're
: going, but in a map you DO want players to be able to, and sometimes have
: to, explore.

Forrest has it right. Maps that are "real" suck ass, whether or not they're netmaps or solo maps. This isn't a knock at Eternal, it's just a general principle. The idea is to make a map whose design seems plausible, but design it in such a manner that the player can't just shoot from entrance to exit, like what would happen in a REAL place. For instance, the starship Marathon is like the least realistic design of a spaceship, ever. If you were going to design a more realistic spacecraft, it would probably feature a lot of small, cramped rooms, with a couple main hallways that go from the bow to the stern, and conveniently, centrally-located elevators that provide free access to every deck, which would look great architecturally, but it would be boring because your mission objective would be in some main, easily-accessible room (like the bridge).

If you want a good "plausible" spaceship, going on this example, "The Exit Door Leads In" from Rubicon would be a great choice. It's a retarded design for a REAL spaceship because of all the damn locks and stuff, but the spaceship could exist, and it's designed in a way where the player can't just shoot from the start location up to the bridge and then out the nearest airlock.

That level takes forever for me, every time. Good work, Chris. :P At any rate, from Rubicon, a poor example of a spaceship level would be the level "Not *This* Again." This is a level where about 95% of the rooms just make no sense at all (the fact that it's based on an M1 level doesn't excuse it). The whole level consists of big rooms and big hallways but none of them seem to serve any purpose.

To summarize this post and also to apply it to any level: make levels that seem like they could have a purpose, but don't actually try to define the purpose. If you call a level a prison because it has a few places with locked up BOBs, most players will accept the fact, despite that most of the level isn't really much of a prison, or even like a prison. In fact, most people would appreciate it, because prisons suck.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

What makes a nice map?TDJ 9/29/05 7:41 a.m.
     Re: What makes a nice map?RyokoTK 9/29/05 12:39 p.m.
     Re: What makes a nice map?C Lund 9/30/05 12:18 a.m.
           Re: What makes a nice map?Forrest of B.org 9/30/05 6:34 a.m.
                 Re: What makes a nice map?RyokoTK 9/30/05 7:11 a.m.
                       Applying weapons to maps.RyokoTK 9/30/05 9:05 a.m.
                             Appropriate platform usage.RyokoTK 9/30/05 9:36 a.m.
                                   Lighting.RyokoTK 9/30/05 9:50 a.m.
                                         How to use monsters.RyokoTK 9/30/05 10:07 a.m.
                                               Secrets.RyokoTK 9/30/05 8:29 p.m.
                                                     Monster Behaivor (first version)goran 10/1/05 9:35 a.m.
                                                           Re: Monster Behaivor (first version)RyokoTK 10/1/05 9:57 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Monster Behaivor (first version)goran 10/1/05 10:20 a.m.
                                                           Re: Monster Behaivor (first version)Steve Levinson 10/1/05 7:03 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Monster Behaivor (first version)goran 10/1/05 10:52 p.m.
                                                                       Wow-A compliment from Goran for unsolicited advice *NM*Steve Levinson 10/2/05 6:40 a.m.
                                                                             Maybe his life depended on it... *NM*D-M.A. 10/2/05 6:59 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Maybe his life depended on it...goran 10/2/05 11:28 a.m.
                                                                                         IMO, we're looking to deeply into this... *NM*Blake37 10/2/05 2:17 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Maybe his life depended on it...D-M.A. 10/2/05 6:49 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Maybe his life depended on it...RyokoTK 10/2/05 7:02 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Maybe his life depended on it...D-M.A. 10/2/05 7:10 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Maybe his life depended on it...Steve Levinson 10/2/05 7:27 p.m.
                                                                                               true if Steve=DMAgoran 10/2/05 10:24 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: true if Steve=DMAD-M.A. 10/3/05 8:28 a.m.
                                                                                                           gorans experince of uagoran 10/3/05 2:41 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: gorans experince of uaForrest of B.org 10/3/05 3:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: gorans experince of uaD-M.A. 10/3/05 6:43 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: gorans experince of uaSteve Levinson 10/4/05 4:38 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: gorans experince of uagoran 10/4/05 6:34 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: gorans experince of uaD-M.A. 10/4/05 10:27 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: gorans experince of uaNick Hoad 10/4/05 10:59 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: gorans experince of uagoran 10/4/05 12:21 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: gorans experince of uagoran 10/4/05 12:05 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         I actually agree & perhaps misinterpreted you *NM*Steve Levinson 10/4/05 12:46 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: gorans experince of uaSteve Levinson 10/4/05 11:23 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: gorans experince of uaSimon/team Sigma 10/4/05 12:20 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         True, and horribly off topic, but fun ;) *NM*Steve Levinson 10/4/05 12:47 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: True, and horribly off topic, but fun ;)Simon/team Sigma 10/4/05 1:31 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Taken at face value - no offense taken at all *NM*Steve Levinson 10/4/05 3:21 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: gorans experince of uaD-M.A. 10/4/05 7:15 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: gorans experince of uaForrest of B.org 10/4/05 7:34 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: gorans experince of uaBlake37 10/5/05 9:54 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                           Re: gorans experince of uaForrest of B.org 10/5/05 10:54 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                                 Re: gorans experince of uaBlake37 10/5/05 3:37 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                       Re: gorans experince of uaForrest of B.org 10/5/05 6:40 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                                             Re: gorans experince of uaBlake37 10/6/05 12:22 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Monster Behaivor (first version)goran 10/2/05 11:08 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Monster Behaivor (first version)Steve Levinson 10/2/05 7:35 p.m.
                                         Transitional lighting.RyokoTK 9/30/05 10:40 a.m.
                                         lighting goran style (basics)goran 9/30/05 10:47 a.m.
                                         Re: Lighting.treellama 10/1/05 3:47 a.m.
                       Re: What makes a nice map?C Lund 9/30/05 12:30 p.m.
                             Re: What makes a nice map?RyokoTK 9/30/05 4:54 p.m.
                                   Re: What makes a nice map?Steve Levinson 9/30/05 9:33 p.m.
                                         Re: What makes a nice map?RyokoTK 10/1/05 3:50 a.m.
                                   Re: What makes a nice map?C Lund 9/30/05 11:30 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

 

 

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:

If you'd like to include a link to another page with your message,
please provide both the URL address and the title of the page:

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:

If necessary, enter your password below:

Password:

 

 

Problems? Suggestions? Comments? Email maintainer@bungie.org

Marathon's Story Forum is maintained with WebBBS 5.12.