Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long)


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Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long)

Posted By: Forrest of B.org Date: 2/11/05 11:58 p.m.
In Response To: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens (blake37)

I'm digging up this old thread to note a major bug in this entire chapter that I just discovered. I'll probably have already written around it by the time anyone responds to this, or maybe even by the time I'm done writing it, but if not, maybe some of you will have some ideas, as it also involves a fair amount of speculation on the canon Marathon story, all Eternal plot aside.
It just dawned on me while reading further through the Marathon 2 terminals (I'm re-reading everything over and over to make sure Eternal really meshes perfectly), that the last message of the S'pht'Kr, scattered among the clans and only usable when they were united, were apparently instructions on how to reactivate Thoth.
The way the Marathon Story Page relates it, and thus as I have always believed, Thoth is seen to be some kind of Jjaro AI placed here among the S'pht, and that the reason he was inactive this entire time and never called the S'pht'Kr when the Pfhor first arrived was because apparently someone forgot to turn him on or something.
This completely overlooks the fact that K'lia folded out of Lh'owon orbit the same year that the Pfhor arrived, in which case it really wouldn't make a lot of sense to recall the S'pht'Kr right after they left. More importantly, the obvious implication to me is that either the S'pht'Kr built Thoth in the first place, or at the very least that they deactivated him, or knew that we was to be deactivated, and left a message on how to reactivate him.
According to Tycho, Durandal thought that the S'pht'Kr had *discovered* an abandoned Jjaro outpost on K'lia. According to S'pht history texts, alternately Yrro sent K'lia to the stars, or K'lia itself (personified) fled the carnage of the S'pht wars below. There is also the issue of Yrro departing when he sundered the clans, and yet suddenly reappearing to send K'lia to the stars. This could be interpreted as the Jjaro technology on K'lia being what sent it away, and the personification account simply being a poetic way to describe the S'pht'Kr's flight.
In Eternal I interpreted Thoth's balancing role as a mediator between the S'pht clans, but that raises the question of whether or not he was active while they were warring and if so, why did he do nothing, and if not, and the S'pht'Kr knew how to activate him, why didn't they? Since the S'pht'Kr sent their emissaries (presumably carrying their last message) before they left to settle on K'lia in 811 A.D., that means that there were a thousand years of S'pht warfare during which the pacifist S'pht'Kr did nothing to activate Thoth, who might have been able to help them. Although there is the question of exactly how helpful would Thoth have been to stop the S'pht clans from warring anyway?
The only excuse I can think of is that apparently the S'pht'Kr were almost exterminated (according to Slings and Arrows) before they left for K'lia, and thus wouldn't have even had the manpower to activate Thoth if they had wanted to. So they left it up to the other clans: come together in peace and decipher our message, and Thoth will get in touch with us and we'll come back to live with you. Then there is the question of how the S"pht'Kr got to K'lia in the first place, where it appears the rest of their kin were unable to reach them.
The current plot outline I'm thinking of right now, to incorporate these newfound questions and some possible answers, is thus:
Thoth originally played a mediating role amongst the S'pht. He was, as I say through S'bhuth, "the Older of Olders" - the king of kings, the central mediating intelligence of all the central intelligences ("Olders") of the separate S'pht clans' collectives. In Eternal, I have Hathor somehow deactivate him, after which the strife between clans goes unmediated and wars begin. Who knows why he was inactive in the canon Marathon story.
In 811 A.D., under attack by S'pht'Mnr, the S'pht'Kr seek out some mythological means of salvation from this warfare, and find some Jjaro edifice on Lh'owon which allows them to reach K'lia. In Eternal, I have this be with help from Marcus, as prophecized long ago. They also discover the means of Thoth's reactivation, but cannot undertake such a task themselves, so they leave the key to the warring clans and hope that they may discover it someday, after which Thoth will recall the S'pht'Kr to Lh'owon.
In 1811 A.D., the S'pht'Kr finally depart the Lh'owon system entirely, taking K'lia after the end of the Marsh Wars and leaving for the furthest stars. Shortly thereafter, the Pfhor arrive. In Eternal, I have S'bhuth leave Marcus in stasis inside the Citadel, with the keys to your awakening hidden in prophecy and myth along with the key to actiavting Thoth. The united S'pht awaken you and begin to decipher the last message of S'pht'Kr, and depending on whether you help them or not, you get the rest of Chapter 3...

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens blake37 1/28/05 11:46 a.m.

Sph't happens.. that's really clever. ^_^ *NM* K-chi 1/28/05 1:26 p.m.

clever, yes.. but hardly original. *NM* tcm 1/28/05 2:25 p.m.

I've never heard it before. So sue me. *NM* K-chi 1/28/05 7:18 p.m.

okay. *NM* tcm 1/28/05 8:29 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens Steve Levinson 1/28/05 3:24 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens blake37 1/29/05 3:10 a.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens Forrest of B.org 1/30/05 4:31 p.m.

Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens Steve Levinson 1/30/05 6:49 p.m.

Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long) Forrest of B.org 2/11/05 11:58 p.m.

Re: Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long) Forrest of B.org 2/12/05 1:00 a.m.

Re: Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long) RyokoTK 2/12/05 3:29 a.m.

Re: Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long) luke9 2/12/05 8:13 a.m.

Stuck Pala 4/21/06 8:43 a.m.

Re: Stuck Forrest of B.org 4/21/06 1:37 p.m.

Re: Stuck Pala 4/22/06 7:51 a.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: I'm digging up this old thread to note a major bug in this entire chapter : that I just discovered. I'll probably have already written around it by : the time anyone responds to this, or maybe even by the time I'm done : writing it, but if not, maybe some of you will have some ideas, as it also : involves a fair amount of speculation on the canon Marathon story, all : Eternal plot aside. : It just dawned on me while reading further through the Marathon 2 terminals : (I'm re-reading everything over and over to make sure Eternal really : meshes perfectly), that the last message of the S'pht'Kr, scattered among : the clans and only usable when they were united, were apparently : instructions on how to reactivate Thoth. : The way the Marathon Story Page relates it, and thus as I have always : believed, Thoth is seen to be some kind of Jjaro AI placed here among the : S'pht, and that the reason he was inactive this entire time and never : called the S'pht'Kr when the Pfhor first arrived was because apparently : someone forgot to turn him on or something. : This completely overlooks the fact that K'lia folded out of Lh'owon orbit the : same year that the Pfhor arrived, in which case it really wouldn't make a : lot of sense to recall the S'pht'Kr right after they left. More : importantly, the obvious implication to me is that either the S'pht'Kr : built Thoth in the first place, or at the very least that they deactivated : him, or knew that we was to be deactivated, and left a message on how to : reactivate him. : According to Tycho, Durandal thought that the S'pht'Kr had *discovered* an : abandoned Jjaro outpost on K'lia. According to S'pht history texts, : alternately Yrro sent K'lia to the stars, or K'lia itself (personified) : fled the carnage of the S'pht wars below. There is also the issue of Yrro : departing when he sundered the clans, and yet suddenly reappearing to send : K'lia to the stars. This could be interpreted as the Jjaro technology on : K'lia being what sent it away, and the personification account simply : being a poetic way to describe the S'pht'Kr's flight. : In Eternal I interpreted Thoth's balancing role as a mediator between the : S'pht clans, but that raises the question of whether or not he was active : while they were warring and if so, why did he do nothing, and if not, and : the S'pht'Kr knew how to activate him, why didn't they? Since the S'pht'Kr : sent their emissaries (presumably carrying their last message) before they : left to settle on K'lia in 811 A.D., that means that there were a thousand : years of S'pht warfare during which the pacifist S'pht'Kr did nothing to : activate Thoth, who might have been able to help them. Although there is : the question of exactly how helpful would Thoth have been to stop the : S'pht clans from warring anyway? : The only excuse I can think of is that apparently the S'pht'Kr were almost : exterminated (according to Slings and Arrows) before they left for K'lia, : and thus wouldn't have even had the manpower to activate Thoth if they had : wanted to. So they left it up to the other clans: come together in peace : and decipher our message, and Thoth will get in touch with us and we'll : come back to live with you. Then there is the question of how the : S"pht'Kr got to K'lia in the first place, where it appears the rest : of their kin were unable to reach them. : The current plot outline I'm thinking of right now, to incorporate these : newfound questions and some possible answers, is thus: Thoth originally : played a mediating role amongst the S'pht. He was, as I say through : S'bhuth, "the Older of Olders" - the king of kings, the central : mediating intelligence of all the central intelligences : ("Olders") of the separate S'pht clans' collectives. In Eternal, : I have Hathor somehow deactivate him, after which the strife between clans : goes unmediated and wars begin. Who knows why he was inactive in the canon : Marathon story. : In 811 A.D., under attack by S'pht'Mnr, the S'pht'Kr seek out some : mythological means of salvation from this warfare, and find some Jjaro : edifice on Lh'owon which allows them to reach K'lia. In Eternal, I have : this be with help from Marcus, as prophecized long ago. They also discover : the means of Thoth's reactivation, but cannot undertake such a task : themselves, so they leave the key to the warring clans and hope that they : may discover it someday, after which Thoth will recall the S'pht'Kr to : Lh'owon. : In 1811 A.D., the S'pht'Kr finally depart the Lh'owon system entirely, taking : K'lia after the end of the Marsh Wars and leaving for the furthest stars. : Shortly thereafter, the Pfhor arrive. In Eternal, I have S'bhuth leave : Marcus in stasis inside the Citadel, with the keys to your awakening : hidden in prophecy and myth along with the key to actiavting Thoth. The : united S'pht awaken you and begin to decipher the last message of : S'pht'Kr, and depending on whether you help them or not, you get the rest : of Chapter 3...

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Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens	blake37	1/28/05 11:46 a.m.
Sph't happens.. that's really clever. ^_^ NM	K-chi	1/28/05 1:26 p.m.
clever, yes.. but hardly original. NM	tcm	1/28/05 2:25 p.m.
I've never heard it before. So sue me. NM	K-chi	1/28/05 7:18 p.m.
okay. NM	tcm	1/28/05 8:29 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens	Steve Levinson	1/28/05 3:24 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens	blake37	1/29/05 3:10 a.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens	Forrest of B.org	1/30/05 4:31 p.m.
Re: Eternal Volunteers: Shp't Happens	Steve Levinson	1/30/05 6:49 p.m.
Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long)	Forrest of B.org	2/11/05 11:58 p.m.
Re: Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long)	Forrest of B.org	2/12/05 1:00 a.m.
Re: Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long)	RyokoTK	2/12/05 3:29 a.m.
Re: Thoth and the S'pht'Kr (very long)	luke9	2/12/05 8:13 a.m.
Stuck	Pala	4/21/06 8:43 a.m.
Re: Stuck	Forrest of B.org	4/21/06 1:37 p.m.
Re: Stuck	Pala	4/22/06 7:51 a.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : I'm digging up this old thread to note a major bug in this entire chapter : that I just discovered. I'll probably have already written around it by : the time anyone responds to this, or maybe even by the time I'm done : writing it, but if not, maybe some of you will have some ideas, as it also : involves a fair amount of speculation on the canon Marathon story, all : Eternal plot aside. : It just dawned on me while reading further through the Marathon 2 terminals : (I'm re-reading everything over and over to make sure Eternal really : meshes perfectly), that the last message of the S'pht'Kr, scattered among : the clans and only usable when they were united, were apparently : instructions on how to reactivate Thoth. : The way the Marathon Story Page relates it, and thus as I have always : believed, Thoth is seen to be some kind of Jjaro AI placed here among the : S'pht, and that the reason he was inactive this entire time and never : called the S'pht'Kr when the Pfhor first arrived was because apparently : someone forgot to turn him on or something. : This completely overlooks the fact that K'lia folded out of Lh'owon orbit the : same year that the Pfhor arrived, in which case it really wouldn't make a : lot of sense to recall the S'pht'Kr right after they left. More : importantly, the obvious implication to me is that either the S'pht'Kr : built Thoth in the first place, or at the very least that they deactivated : him, or knew that we was to be deactivated, and left a message on how to : reactivate him. : According to Tycho, Durandal thought that the S'pht'Kr had discovered an : abandoned Jjaro outpost on K'lia. According to S'pht history texts, : alternately Yrro sent K'lia to the stars, or K'lia itself (personified) : fled the carnage of the S'pht wars below. There is also the issue of Yrro : departing when he sundered the clans, and yet suddenly reappearing to send : K'lia to the stars. This could be interpreted as the Jjaro technology on : K'lia being what sent it away, and the personification account simply : being a poetic way to describe the S'pht'Kr's flight. : In Eternal I interpreted Thoth's balancing role as a mediator between the : S'pht clans, but that raises the question of whether or not he was active : while they were warring and if so, why did he do nothing, and if not, and : the S'pht'Kr knew how to activate him, why didn't they? Since the S'pht'Kr : sent their emissaries (presumably carrying their last message) before they : left to settle on K'lia in 811 A.D., that means that there were a thousand : years of S'pht warfare during which the pacifist S'pht'Kr did nothing to : activate Thoth, who might have been able to help them. Although there is : the question of exactly how helpful would Thoth have been to stop the : S'pht clans from warring anyway? : The only excuse I can think of is that apparently the S'pht'Kr were almost : exterminated (according to Slings and Arrows) before they left for K'lia, : and thus wouldn't have even had the manpower to activate Thoth if they had : wanted to. So they left it up to the other clans: come together in peace : and decipher our message, and Thoth will get in touch with us and we'll : come back to live with you. Then there is the question of how the : S"pht'Kr got to K'lia in the first place, where it appears the rest : of their kin were unable to reach them. : The current plot outline I'm thinking of right now, to incorporate these : newfound questions and some possible answers, is thus: Thoth originally : played a mediating role amongst the S'pht. He was, as I say through : S'bhuth, "the Older of Olders" - the king of kings, the central : mediating intelligence of all the central intelligences : ("Olders") of the separate S'pht clans' collectives. In Eternal, : I have Hathor somehow deactivate him, after which the strife between clans : goes unmediated and wars begin. Who knows why he was inactive in the canon : Marathon story. : In 811 A.D., under attack by S'pht'Mnr, the S'pht'Kr seek out some : mythological means of salvation from this warfare, and find some Jjaro : edifice on Lh'owon which allows them to reach K'lia. In Eternal, I have : this be with help from Marcus, as prophecized long ago. They also discover : the means of Thoth's reactivation, but cannot undertake such a task : themselves, so they leave the key to the warring clans and hope that they : may discover it someday, after which Thoth will recall the S'pht'Kr to : Lh'owon. : In 1811 A.D., the S'pht'Kr finally depart the Lh'owon system entirely, taking : K'lia after the end of the Marsh Wars and leaving for the furthest stars. : Shortly thereafter, the Pfhor arrive. In Eternal, I have S'bhuth leave : Marcus in stasis inside the Citadel, with the keys to your awakening : hidden in prophecy and myth along with the key to actiavting Thoth. The : united S'pht awaken you and begin to decipher the last message of : S'pht'Kr, and depending on whether you help them or not, you get the rest : of Chapter 3...
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