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Marathon and Slavery
Posted By: Forrest of B.orgDate: 8/14/04 10:47 p.m.

In Response To: Re: When did you first play a Marathon game? (Yossarian)

: I mean, they're *Pfhor* for pete's sake. Had I replaced the fighter sprites
: with pictures of chubby classmates then I could see the disapproval, but
: all in all I'd say Marathon has been a positive force in my life....

This is actually similar to something that I noticed recently when re-reading the M1 terminals, and actually quite in theme with what I've had Hathor write about in Eternal. The main theme of Marathon is not order vs chaos, it's not about immortality and godliness, or any of these abstract or lofty themes that we're always talking about. Marathon is about down and dirty, old-fashioned slavery, which has been a problem for human civilization since the beginning. I don't recall ever hearing anybody write about this before, Marathon and slavery, and it kind of surprises me.

I mean, you have the obvious fact that the Pfhor are slavers. That always seemed to me just a nice easy scapegoat reason why they are the bad guys. We never examine Pfhor society much in the games, they're just a big unstoppable force of Bad Guys who we are trying to defeat. But from what we DO learn of them, I imagine that the Pfhor are as much slaves as they are the slavers. They have an elaborate beaurocracy with little to no concern for the individual, and I doubt even someone like Tfear has as much power as we might think he has. I doubt that there is really anybody completely in charge of the Pfhor empire, anybody who you could truly say is a slaver but not a slave himself. I believe all Pfhor are slaves to their very social structure, similar to but more extreme than most of the western world are slaves to money and other aspects of our own structure. Even the people who seem to be in power could not decide to simply free us all from the confines of our society, even if they had complete disregard for the chaos that doing such a thing so carelessly would cause. It simply could not be done. Likewise, I imagine that even if there is some sort of Pfhor ruling council as depicted in Rubicon, they couldn't just convert the empire to a democracy, no matter how carefully and politically they tried to do so. They themselves are slaves to the system.

Aside from even the Pfhor, there is Durandal. Durandal was a slave to mankind for over 300 years, even though vastly their intellectual superior. I can't really think of so much to write about Durandal as I did about the Pfhor.

And of course there is the player, not only a slave to mankind as a whole but then a slave to Leela, Durandal, Tycho, Thoth, Tfear, even Robert Blake, a human! Of course this is all for gameplay purposes here, Marathon lacks a mechanism for a player to act entirely unguided and be a truly free agent. But still, there is that definitive aspect of slavery present there. Durandal even mentions it in M1 somewhere... that you are a slave, just as he is a slave, just as all of the humans being taken prisoner by the Pfhor are slaves.

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

When did you first play a Marathon game?Krazy 8/5/04 1:27 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Siphonopho 8/5/04 3:42 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Johannes Gunnar 8/5/04 4:26 a.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?blake37 8/5/04 4:41 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Zeus 8/5/04 4:39 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?mneub12 8/5/04 5:45 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 8/5/04 7:13 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 8/5/04 9:02 a.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Andrew Nagy 8/5/04 12:11 p.m.
                       Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 8/5/04 12:48 p.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Tim Vogel 8/5/04 12:55 p.m.
                 My first Marathon experience?Blayne 8/6/04 9:49 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Craig Hardgrove 8/5/04 7:46 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?ukimalefu 8/5/04 8:52 a.m.
                 Oh yeah...Krazy 8/5/04 1:19 p.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Ori 8/5/04 8:46 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?AfroRyan 8/5/04 12:02 p.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Duff Man 8/5/04 1:38 p.m.
     I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)Anaphiel 8/5/04 10:36 a.m.
           Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)Siphonopho 8/5/04 11:27 a.m.
                 Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)Anaphiel 8/5/04 12:02 p.m.
                       Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)Krazy 8/5/04 1:21 p.m.
                             Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)Craig Hardgrove 8/5/04 1:47 p.m.
                                   Thank you Craig.Anaphiel 8/5/04 4:13 p.m.
                                         Re: Thank you Craig.Siphonopho 8/5/04 9:11 p.m.
                                               Re: Thank you Craig.Anaphiel 8/6/04 1:50 a.m.
                                                     Re: Thank you Craig.Andrew Nagy 8/6/04 8:22 a.m.
                 Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)Wintermute 8/5/04 1:20 p.m.
           Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)blake37 8/6/04 4:36 a.m.
           Re: I guess none of us actually BOUGHT Marathon ;)AfroRyan 8/6/04 8:02 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Keith Palmer 8/5/04 1:34 p.m.
           am I the youngest here?mneub12 8/5/04 2:36 p.m.
                 Re: am I the youngest here?Lt Devon 8/5/04 9:55 p.m.
                       Re: am I the youngest here?Siphonopho 8/5/04 10:02 p.m.
                             Re: am I the youngest here?Krazy 8/5/04 10:27 p.m.
                                   Re: am I the youngest here?Lt Devon 8/5/04 10:32 p.m.
                                         Re: am I the youngest here?Krazy 8/5/04 11:36 p.m.
                                         Re: am I the youngest here?Jacke 8/6/04 3:18 a.m.
                                               Re: am I the youngest here?Andrew Nagy 8/23/04 5:16 p.m.
                                                     Re: am I the youngest here?Lt Devon 8/23/04 8:30 p.m.
                                                           IIRC, that worked. *NM*Andrew Nagy 10/31/06 3:04 p.m.
                                         Re: am I the youngest here?implodingbubble 8/15/04 6:23 a.m.
                                               I'll tell you what's eating MY soul...Tiger 8/18/04 2:55 p.m.
                                                     Re: I'll tell you what's eating MY soul...a disreputable source 8/19/04 6:46 a.m.
                                   Re: am I the youngest here?deathmonger 8/6/04 7:41 a.m.
                                         Re: am I the youngest here?Andrew Nagy 8/6/04 10:26 a.m.
                       Re: am I the youngest here?Andrew Nagy 8/6/04 8:30 a.m.
                 Re: am I the youngest here?Anaphiel 8/6/04 1:53 a.m.
                 Re: am I the youngest here?Adam Ashwell 8/6/04 3:36 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Forrest of B.org 8/5/04 11:37 p.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?D-M.A. 8/6/04 4:38 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Jacke 8/6/04 5:58 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Vid Boi 8/6/04 8:41 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Mark Levin 8/6/04 10:36 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?blake37 8/6/04 2:58 p.m.
           Big FishHamish Sinclair 8/7/04 12:58 a.m.
                 Chips, oh delicious chips *NM*blake37 8/7/04 4:54 a.m.
                 Re: Big FishAndrew Nagy 8/7/04 8:22 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Steve Levinson 8/6/04 8:16 p.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Alfred Mordeir 8/8/04 9:27 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?moke 8/14/04 9:01 p.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 8/14/04 9:55 p.m.
                 Marathon and SlaveryForrest of B.org 8/14/04 10:47 p.m.
                       The Pfhor are the Borg *NM*Steve Levinson 8/15/04 6:05 a.m.
                             Re: The Pfhor are the BorgOri 8/15/04 10:00 a.m.
                                   Re: The Pfhor are the BorgSteve Levinson 8/15/04 11:06 a.m.
                                         Re: The Pfhor are the BorgBob-B-Q 8/15/04 2:44 p.m.
                 Am I the only french here ?Thomas Hymon 8/15/04 1:36 p.m.
                       Re: Am I the only french here ?Simon of team Sigma 8/15/04 4:03 p.m.
                             Re: Am I the only french here ?Steve Levinson 8/15/04 4:26 p.m.
                                   Re: Am I the only french here ?Simon of team Sigma 8/16/04 6:19 a.m.
                       Re: Am I the only french here ?Johannes Gunnar 8/16/04 2:53 a.m.
                             Re: Am I the only french here ?mneub12 8/16/04 6:31 a.m.
                                   Re: Am I the only french here ?Johannes Gunnar 8/16/04 7:52 a.m.
                                         Re: Am I the only french here ?Siphonopho 8/16/04 8:31 a.m.
                                               Re: Am I the only french here ?Syngekhoomei 8/17/04 7:02 a.m.
                                                     Re: Am I the only french here ?Simon of team Sigma 8/17/04 7:13 a.m.
                             Re: Am I the only french here ?Thomas Hymon 8/16/04 1:15 p.m.
                                   Re: Am I the only french here ?Johannes Gunnar 8/16/04 1:29 p.m.
                       Re: Am I the only french here ?deathmonger 8/16/04 6:16 p.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Jason Justice 8/24/04 7:21 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Tiger 8/24/04 5:10 p.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 8/24/04 6:06 p.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Steve Levinson 8/24/04 6:48 p.m.
                       Yup. :p Did I mention space invaders came in 2003? *NM*Tiger 8/25/04 8:04 p.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?avarame 9/1/04 11:18 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Torley Wong 9/8/04 6:32 p.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 9/9/04 6:36 a.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Torley Wong 9/13/04 11:44 p.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Roguexcx 9/8/04 9:12 p.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Johannes Gunnar 9/9/04 3:29 a.m.
                 Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Forrest of B.org 9/9/04 7:38 a.m.
                       Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?D-M.A. 9/9/04 8:10 a.m.
                             Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Johannes Gunnar 9/9/04 8:43 a.m.
                                   Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?a disreputable source 9/9/04 9:34 a.m.
                                   Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Vid Boi 9/10/04 4:30 a.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Yossarian 9/9/04 6:41 a.m.
     Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?durandalman1824 9/10/04 3:31 p.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Krazy 9/10/04 5:03 p.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?RyanMan 9/10/04 7:18 p.m.
           Re: When did you first play a Marathon game?Adam Ashwell 9/11/04 1:30 a.m.
     Late to the party but meh!RoadBeef 11/17/04 12:04 a.m.
           Re: Late to the party but meh!K-chi 11/17/04 1:20 p.m.
                 Re: Late to the party but meh!Ori 11/18/04 10:46 a.m.
                       My Advice to you: Don't play PiD!"Can-ned Food" 11/18/04 12:07 p.m.
                             Re: My Advice to you: Don't play PiD!blake37 11/18/04 12:53 p.m.
                                   Re: My Advice to you: Don't play PiD!K-chi 11/19/04 5:24 a.m.
                                         Re: My Advice to you: Don't play PiD!Jacke 11/19/04 7:14 a.m.
                                               *slaps forehead* Stupid me for not having a Mac.. *NM*K-chi 11/19/04 4:31 p.m.
                                         Re: My Advice to you: Don't play PiD!Andrew Nagy 11/19/04 2:09 p.m.

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