Re: Not so eternally bored after all


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Re: Not so eternally bored after all

Posted By: Forrest of B.org Date: 8/13/04 11:46 a.m.
In Response To: Re: Not so eternally bored after all (Steve Levinson)

: Forrest, have you played Ben Potter's Marathon Fell? There are two major
: branch points in his scenario, both of which involve player choice.
: Unfortunately the first of these is so asymetric (the choice to follow the
: first AI involves incredible risk, and there are no PB's at all on the
: affected level) as to make it possible for only the most dedicated to go
: down one of the pathways. The second branch point is near the end and much
: more obvious. Unfortunately, the choices of pathways lead to different
: endings and the only way to recover from a bad outcome is to replay the
: game. Ben is aware of these issues and if he ever has the time to revise
: Fell, will address them. The point of all of this is to explain that it is
: indeed possible to give the player choice while still providing one true
: timeline - they just have to keep going back and repeating things over and
: over again until they get it right.
This is how it works in Eternal, too. In each chapter is a branch point that will take you down a short, failed timeline, at the end of which you by some means leave the timeline via Cybernetic Junction, and are treated to a dream level (Inti Omega) showing you the future of that timeline and why it's screwed up, and then being sent back to fix it. Taken straight from the AMS variations in Infinity, but with a little more lead-in to the failure and not just a straight jump to the end of the timeline. And as I said, not all of these branches are strictly time-based. The first two are; the third is dependant only on which terminal you exit from (finding the "right" one required wandering a bit further afield; the fourth is dependent on whether you do a secondary level objective that you're not explicitly told to do but might just think to do anyway en route to your primary objective; and the last one is sort of a cross between the third and fourth, an exit terminal will become available partway through the mission (asking you to stop the mission and go do other things), but that one is deactivated and another becomes available if you actually complete the mission. The last one is the more obvious actual choice you can make in the game (you have to actually abort the first exit terminal if you want to continue the mission), and is intended to be a very hard, emotional choice for the players to make, because both endings have dire consequences.
: Speaking of which, although there
: hints all over the place in Moontanning, I fear that some players still
: won't get it and will give up in exaspiration. I'm not sure I have a fix
: for this, however, nor would I necessarily want to.
I hope to someday have a spoiler guide for problems like that.
: Go back to lava! This would be an incredibly cool level if it were a lava
: level. I understand the difficulties with the different texture sets, but
: it would be worth having an extra texture set just for this level. The
: level you described with lava sounds like it would be much more
: interesting to play and Chapter 1 could use a lava level - it would help
: to restore the feel of the Marathon. Yes, lava that is overflowing where
: you don't want it, that you must bypass or swim in would be great. Doors
: and obstructions to be avoided would feel much more like the Marathon. My
: advice is to keep the positive changes made to the original plan, but to
: restore the things that made it cool. I cannot overemphasize how cool this
: level would be with lava!
I agree it would be really very cool to have lava there, but it doesn't work for both story and texture purposes. As it stands now all of Ch1 except the Failure branch takes place in Engineering, which is near the surface of the ship, and not near the lava at the core. That's the story problem, and the texture problem is all of the terminals, etc, would have S'pht logos on them instead of Marathon emblems, because Set 2 (Lava) is designed specifically for Lh'owon (and is used as such, a LOT, in Chapter 3).
Isn't there some way that you can use more than one media in a level, like with Chisel or something? If I could stick to the Marathon textures and put lava in there, that would totally rock. I'd ignore the "but it's in engineering!' BS to have the old gameplay back.
: The center pillar doesn't fully lower, which is a good thing as it can be
: used as a shield and to hide behind. If the player jumps onto it once the
: outer platform reaches its height, however, they will be trapped on it as
: the outer platform(s) continue to rise. Since the surrounding polys are
: untextured, the effect is really weird.
Hmm, that's not right. The whole central pillar, consisting of 9 platforms, is supposed to raise and lower in unison continuously, contracting slower, just like the one on Core Done Blew. Does the one on CDB act like the one here too?
: Thanks for this explanation. I did mean to mention that it was really fun to
: work for a pre-Pfhor Tycho - it gives an entirely different perspective on
: him. I did not realize that all of Ch 1 takes place well before most of
: the original Marathon plot. Although we don't want to alter that timeline,
: I don't think it would hurt for the player to venture into areas or to see
: areas that are familiar to them. For example, we know that The Rose was
: free of Pfhor prior to Duranda's letting them in, so there would be no
: harm in venturing through this area on the way to something else. Or
: Engineering etc. It would simply help to solidify the relationship to the
: Marathon.
Well, it is all in Engineering, except the Failure branch.
As for the the timeline, here's a handy Eternal-to-M1 level/event correlation for a couple of levels:
1. Deja Vu ------- Miriata on it's way to Marathon.
("One of security's big guns is on his way up...")
2. Boiler Room ------- Initial EMP attack on Marathon, Miriata destroyed.
("Sorry, the Marathon has just undergone the electromagnetic pulse attack detailed in Leela's initial report...")
5. Un-Wired ------- Couch Fishing
("Your previous self is currently inserting a program into the routers to contain Durandal...")
9. Can't TOZT This ------- before Blaspheme Quarantine
(Tycho was already destroyed when we read his "I am being assimilated" message on Blaspheme).
So yeah, Eternal leaves Marathon less than a third of the way through the M1 plot.
: I read it some time ago and even commented that you shouldn't try to unify
: Marathon with Halo. I trust that you've made substantial modifications
: since then and I've largely forgotten most of it, so I'll be sure to
: refrain from reading it again.
Yeah, mostly just to chapter 5 to remove the Marathon connections, but there's other minor changes here and there as well. I look forward to hearing people's reflections on Chapter 2. :-)

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Pre-2004 Posts

Replies:

Not so eternally bored after all Steve Levinson 8/12/04 12:06 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Yossarian 8/12/04 12:38 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Mr. Cactus 8/12/04 8:06 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Forrest of B.org 8/12/04 9:13 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all D-M.A. 8/13/04 5:50 a.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Steve Levinson 8/13/04 7:18 a.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Forrest of B.org 8/13/04 11:46 a.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Steve Levinson 8/13/04 12:13 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Forrest of B.org 8/13/04 12:49 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Steve Levinson 8/13/04 1:29 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Ben A. Potter 8/13/04 2:02 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Forrest of B.org 8/13/04 4:26 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Blayne 8/13/04 2:01 p.m.

Re: Not so eternally bored after all Forrest of B.org 8/13/04 4:30 p.m.

[ Post a Reply | Message Index | Read Prev Msg | Read Next Msg ]
Pre-2004 Posts

Your Name:
Your E-Mail Address:
Subject:
Message:
: This is how it works in Eternal, too. In each chapter is a branch point that : will take you down a short, failed timeline, at the end of which you by : some means leave the timeline via Cybernetic Junction, and are treated to : a dream level (Inti Omega) showing you the future of that timeline and why : it's screwed up, and then being sent back to fix it. Taken straight from : the AMS variations in Infinity, but with a little more lead-in to the : failure and not just a straight jump to the end of the timeline. And as I : said, not all of these branches are strictly time-based. The first two : are; the third is dependant only on which terminal you exit from (finding : the "right" one required wandering a bit further afield; the : fourth is dependent on whether you do a secondary level objective that : you're not explicitly told to do but might just think to do anyway en : route to your primary objective; and the last one is sort of a cross : between the third and fourth, an exit terminal will become available : partway through the mission (asking you to stop the mission and go do : other things), but that one is deactivated and another becomes available : if you actually complete the mission. The last one is the more obvious : actual choice you can make in the game (you have to actually abort the : first exit terminal if you want to continue the mission), and is intended : to be a very hard, emotional choice for the players to make, because both : endings have dire consequences. : I hope to someday have a spoiler guide for problems like that. : I agree it would be really very cool to have lava there, but it doesn't work : for both story and texture purposes. As it stands now all of Ch1 except : the Failure branch takes place in Engineering, which is near the surface : of the ship, and not near the lava at the core. That's the story problem, : and the texture problem is all of the terminals, etc, would have S'pht : logos on them instead of Marathon emblems, because Set 2 (Lava) is : designed specifically for Lh'owon (and is used as such, a LOT, in Chapter : 3). : Isn't there some way that you can use more than one media in a level, like : with Chisel or something? If I could stick to the Marathon textures and : put lava in there, that would totally rock. I'd ignore the "but it's : in engineering!' BS to have the old gameplay back. : Hmm, that's not right. The whole central pillar, consisting of 9 platforms, : is supposed to raise and lower in unison continuously, contracting slower, : just like the one on Core Done Blew. Does the one on CDB act like the one : here too? : Well, it is all in Engineering, except the Failure branch. : As for the the timeline, here's a handy Eternal-to-M1 level/event correlation : for a couple of levels: 1. Deja Vu ------- Miriata on it's way to : Marathon. : ("One of security's big guns is on his way up...") : 2. Boiler Room ------- Initial EMP attack on Marathon, Miriata destroyed. : ("Sorry, the Marathon has just undergone the electromagnetic pulse : attack detailed in Leela's initial report...") : 5. Un-Wired ------- Couch Fishing : ("Your previous self is currently inserting a program into the routers : to contain Durandal...") : 9. Can't TOZT This ------- before Blaspheme Quarantine : (Tycho was already destroyed when we read his "I am being : assimilated" message on Blaspheme). : So yeah, Eternal leaves Marathon less than a third of the way through the M1 : plot. : Yeah, mostly just to chapter 5 to remove the Marathon connections, but : there's other minor changes here and there as well. I look forward to : hearing people's reflections on Chapter 2. :-)

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Not so eternally bored after all	Steve Levinson	8/12/04 12:06 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Yossarian	8/12/04 12:38 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Mr. Cactus	8/12/04 8:06 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Forrest of B.org	8/12/04 9:13 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	D-M.A.	8/13/04 5:50 a.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Steve Levinson	8/13/04 7:18 a.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Forrest of B.org	8/13/04 11:46 a.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Steve Levinson	8/13/04 12:13 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Forrest of B.org	8/13/04 12:49 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Steve Levinson	8/13/04 1:29 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Ben A. Potter	8/13/04 2:02 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Forrest of B.org	8/13/04 4:26 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Blayne	8/13/04 2:01 p.m.
Re: Not so eternally bored after all	Forrest of B.org	8/13/04 4:30 p.m.



	Your Name:
	Your E-Mail Address:
	Subject:
	Message: : This is how it works in Eternal, too. In each chapter is a branch point that : will take you down a short, failed timeline, at the end of which you by : some means leave the timeline via Cybernetic Junction, and are treated to : a dream level (Inti Omega) showing you the future of that timeline and why : it's screwed up, and then being sent back to fix it. Taken straight from : the AMS variations in Infinity, but with a little more lead-in to the : failure and not just a straight jump to the end of the timeline. And as I : said, not all of these branches are strictly time-based. The first two : are; the third is dependant only on which terminal you exit from (finding : the "right" one required wandering a bit further afield; the : fourth is dependent on whether you do a secondary level objective that : you're not explicitly told to do but might just think to do anyway en : route to your primary objective; and the last one is sort of a cross : between the third and fourth, an exit terminal will become available : partway through the mission (asking you to stop the mission and go do : other things), but that one is deactivated and another becomes available : if you actually complete the mission. The last one is the more obvious : actual choice you can make in the game (you have to actually abort the : first exit terminal if you want to continue the mission), and is intended : to be a very hard, emotional choice for the players to make, because both : endings have dire consequences. : I hope to someday have a spoiler guide for problems like that. : I agree it would be really very cool to have lava there, but it doesn't work : for both story and texture purposes. As it stands now all of Ch1 except : the Failure branch takes place in Engineering, which is near the surface : of the ship, and not near the lava at the core. That's the story problem, : and the texture problem is all of the terminals, etc, would have S'pht : logos on them instead of Marathon emblems, because Set 2 (Lava) is : designed specifically for Lh'owon (and is used as such, a LOT, in Chapter : 3). : Isn't there some way that you can use more than one media in a level, like : with Chisel or something? If I could stick to the Marathon textures and : put lava in there, that would totally rock. I'd ignore the "but it's : in engineering!' BS to have the old gameplay back. : Hmm, that's not right. The whole central pillar, consisting of 9 platforms, : is supposed to raise and lower in unison continuously, contracting slower, : just like the one on Core Done Blew. Does the one on CDB act like the one : here too? : Well, it is all in Engineering, except the Failure branch. : As for the the timeline, here's a handy Eternal-to-M1 level/event correlation : for a couple of levels: 1. Deja Vu ------- Miriata on it's way to : Marathon. : ("One of security's big guns is on his way up...") : 2. Boiler Room ------- Initial EMP attack on Marathon, Miriata destroyed. : ("Sorry, the Marathon has just undergone the electromagnetic pulse : attack detailed in Leela's initial report...") : 5. Un-Wired ------- Couch Fishing : ("Your previous self is currently inserting a program into the routers : to contain Durandal...") : 9. Can't TOZT This ------- before Blaspheme Quarantine : (Tycho was already destroyed when we read his "I am being : assimilated" message on Blaspheme). : So yeah, Eternal leaves Marathon less than a third of the way through the M1 : plot. : Yeah, mostly just to chapter 5 to remove the Marathon connections, but : there's other minor changes here and there as well. I look forward to : hearing people's reflections on Chapter 2. :-)
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