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Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni
Posted By: Mid7night <pakrat961@yahoo.com>	Date: 10/5/12 11:14 a.m.
In Response To: Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni (scarab) : I'm not a pilot but I assume that the vertical surfaces control yaw, could : that be done via thrust vectoring of the rear thrusters? Does X-Plane : understand thrust vectoring? Given that Pelicans can operate in space you : would think that they would need thrusters to supply complete attitude : control (unless they use gyros). Even as a non-plot I noticed the lack of : vertical control surfaces. X-Plane can do just about anything you can imagine. The problem with using thrust vectoring for yaw-control in forward flight, is that you lose ALL control effectiveness if you throttle back to slow down, because thrust-vectoring-control requires THRUST. So a tail, or wingtip-drag-device, of some kind is always preferable to thrust-vectoring alone. : A Halo 5 Pelican redesign should take account of these issues. The Pelican : look realistic (ignoring obvious lack of vertical control surfaces) and : the UNSC kit, in general, has a real world vibe. And the Halo engine is : very much a simulation engine. I think that 343i should take advantage of : this. They should make sure that the UNSC aircraft can actually fly fairly : well. Model them in X-Plane. Where X-Plane has difficulty in modeling : aspects of the craft then use the Halo engine. (I'm thinking vectored : thrust here, though maybe X-Plane can model vectored thrust, I just don't : know what it can do.) : Point is: if they do the work to make the craft fly well then the effort pay : off in these ways: it will probably create a finished craft that just : looks right The movements of control surfaces and thrusters would be : correct for the movements that the craft makes cinematics could be : created by having actual pilots fly the craft and 'motion capture' their : control inputs so that things look more realistic 343i would get bragging : rights given that their stuff actually flys they could even release : X-Plane models for immediate use when the game ships I COMPLETELY agree with you, that would be incredible! The thing is, it's an extra step in the modeling/animation process that you don't strictly need to do if you have competent animators. However, I do believe that it would return better, more realistic looking results quicker, regardless of how talented your animators are. Hmmm...maybe I could market myself on a contract-basis to do that for games and movies... ::wheels turning:: : Do you think someone at Bungie considered this and put them where they were : needed? I wonder if they just eyeballed it or used X-Plane or the Halo : engine itself (given that it could simulate center of gravity, center of : mass, etc) I really doubt they used X-Plane, they probably just eyeballed it. They're not too far off plausibility, so they did a good job, but to really use X-Plane would take a lot more time and investment than they could have probably afforded. : What controller did you use? An X65/X45? or a throttle quadrant? or ? I like to have my controller with me wherever, so I have a Saitek CyborgX, because it collapses and folds up nicely. : What kind of work could you do to smooth it out? Are you doing fly by wire? : Can you read the craft's attitude and momentum and try to moderate thrust : based on feedback from the simulation? or are you talking about little : tweaks? : How much info does X-Plane give you? : Have you tried FlightGear ? That link describes a vertical takeoff in a : Harrier. I don't know if they fake the vectored thrust or actually model : it properly. The features page suggests that it does some of the : aerodynamic modeling that X-Plane does. : And, being open source, you would have access to all the info you'd want. If : the current build won't provide what you need then modify the source. I : assume that you are comfortable in C from your x-plane plugin DLL work. To "smooth it out", I basically can tweak what kind of airfoils the wings use, change the angles on the wings, "hide" little stabilizer-wings that simulate the airflow over the body, and also tweak the stability-augmentation-constants ("Fly-By-Wire"). X-Plane has a built-in artificial-stability system that you can apply in different flight regimes (low speed/high speed), so that's a big part of the tweaking. X-Plane can give you WAY more info than you could ever want. With the right tools, you basically have access to every variable that X-Plane uses. It's FAR more powerful and accurate than FlightGear. I've spent a LOT of my time in X-Plane modeling "weird" configurations, just to see if they could actually work, given real-world physics. The Hornet is one of my favorites, because I didn't 'cheat' ANYthing; all of the applied forces and controls are right where you see them, nothing is hidden. And it's SO much fun to fly!! Granted, the power/size ratio that the Hornet has is unrealistic for today's tech, but that's a tech-level problem, not strictly a physics-one. : Totally :-) And they'd need an advisor to get them up to speed. I wonder how : many people at 343i or Bungie are into flight sims? I don't recall anybody : mentioning such an interest in interviews. I would LOVE to be that advisor... :D

- BSAV -

Message Index

Better post this before FUD drops tomorrow...	Mid7night	10/4/12 5:00 p.m.
Re: Better post this before FUD drops tomorrow...	Chewbaccawakka	10/4/12 5:08 p.m.
Is that cockpit view on the right-hand side?	RC Master	10/4/12 5:10 p.m.
I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptonite	scarab	10/4/12 5:38 p.m.
@Mid7night ^^^^^^^^ *NM*	scarab	10/4/12 5:45 p.m.
LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptonite	Mid7night	10/4/12 7:57 p.m.
Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni	scarab	10/5/12 5:03 a.m.
Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni	Mid7night	10/5/12 11:14 a.m.
Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni	scarab	10/5/12 1:09 p.m.
Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni	Mid7night	10/5/12 1:40 p.m.
Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni	scarab	10/5/12 4:15 p.m.
Re: LOL: I think cockpits are Mid7night's Kryptoni	RC Master	10/5/12 10:02 a.m.
Great job, dude! *NM*	The Lionheart	10/5/12 1:53 a.m.