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| ...........what is this | |
| Posted By: Hawaiian Pig <hawaiianpig@gmail.com> | Date: 4/16/12 12:33 p.m. |
In Response To: Re: To clarify (Louis Wu) This argument is ridiculous. Both sides are being pig-headed about the definition of an unloackable; neither of you are seeing the cause. Y'all are missing the crux of this discussion. It's a point I made ages ago, but decided not to elaborate on: : How is that different than telling players they have to beat level 1 to get That's really what this comes down to. Unlocking levels isn't seen as an "unlockable" because it's a natural progression of challenge and reward. There's a reason people don't refer to levels as "unlockables." It's utterly absurd to see level progression being held as analogous to multiplayer unlockables. It's only similar in that you complete something to get something else. You may as well call a university degree an "unlockable". Level progression is a different animal. The designer lays out a world for you to navigate and a set of objectives, and you traverse them as best as you can. Ideally the things between you and your objective are challenging, engaging, and interesting. We buy single player games for this very reason. The unlockables we're discussing here exist outside of this natural progression. These are what people are griping about. The strawman of defeating level 1 to unlock level 2 does not translate directly over to solving riddles to unlock challenge levels. A more natural progression is to complete challenge level 1 to unlock challenge level 2. Why? Because this kind of unlockable rewards your engagement and learned skills with another similar and greater challenge. Finding/solving riddles does not naturally precede unlocking challenge levels. They require two different skill sets and only the set of people who enjoy both will enjoy that. Because games are more than just single player campaigns... because they include all sorts of "games" within -- different aspects of which different gamers enjoy -- it's unfair to the player, and sometimes frankly offensive to their time, to expect them to engage in something they don't want to do in order to get something they want. For me, it's insulting to of a game to ask me to grind out points to acquire an item that can give me an advantage in multiplayer. (Yes, I'm aware that this isn't the case for Halo 4 as far as we know) Multiplayer and unlockables tend to be diametrically opposed. The challenge in multiplayer doesn't need to be artificial. The challenge is other people. The challenge is increased by, ideally, a well crafted ranking system. For those who player multiplayer for the social aspect, unlockables do nothing for them either. Well, unless you count giving them an excuse to mindlessly plug away at a goal. It's worked for MMORPGS. It's not what I want in Halo, and I'm willing to bet it's not what most people want.
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| Replies: |
| Present thoughts about the future *long* | Hedgemony | 4/11/12 9:44 p.m. |
| I'm Grim, & this is my favorite post on the forum *NM* | GrimBrother One | 4/11/12 9:50 p.m. |
| Hear hear! *NM* | Das Kalk | 4/11/12 9:53 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 4/11/12 10:16 p.m. |
| Brilliantly well put, mirrors my own thoughts. *NM* | Tiny | 4/11/12 10:19 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | stabbim | 4/11/12 10:23 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | bluerunner | 4/11/12 10:26 p.m. |
| well put *NM* | kidtsunami | 4/11/12 10:29 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | KP | 4/11/12 10:31 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | tucsonbatman | 4/11/12 10:57 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | DEEP NNN | 4/12/12 6:37 a.m. |
| Just you wait. You're next! :p *NM* | rhubarb | 4/12/12 10:57 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | breitzen | 4/11/12 10:41 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Frankie | 4/12/12 12:21 a.m. |
| Frankie's mental image of HBO until release | The Lionheart | 4/12/12 12:36 a.m. |
| You dun good kid, great post. *NM* | Pebbles | 4/12/12 12:55 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Frankie | 4/12/12 12:26 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Quirel | 4/12/12 12:46 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Das Kalk | 4/12/12 10:52 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Metalingus627 | 4/12/12 5:00 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | kanbo | 4/11/12 10:52 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Vic DeLeon | 4/11/12 10:56 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Der Flatulator | 4/16/12 9:44 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Der Flatulator | 4/16/12 9:49 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | RC Master | 4/16/12 10:58 a.m. |
| We have seen the angst before. | Captain Spark | 4/11/12 11:00 p.m. |
| Agreed | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 4/11/12 11:04 p.m. |
| Sing it! Truth. *NM* | yakaman | 4/11/12 11:11 p.m. |
| Well put, indeed. *NM* | Leviathan | 4/11/12 11:22 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | uberfoop | 4/11/12 11:35 p.m. |
| Re: Change is gouda. *NM* | Hedgemony | 4/11/12 11:37 p.m. |
| Halo 4 LE = Wheel of smoked gouda? *NM* | uberfoop | 4/12/12 12:09 a.m. |
| Thank you again... | GrimBrother One | 4/11/12 11:49 p.m. |
| Re: Thank you again... | Tiny | 4/12/12 7:53 a.m. |
| Why Halo 4 will be a very bad game *Long, IMGs* | Schooly D | 4/12/12 12:07 a.m. |
| Exquisitely well put, Hedge. | The Lionheart | 4/12/12 12:23 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Morhek | 4/12/12 12:36 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | stabbim | 4/12/12 12:48 a.m. |
| Can a hipster hate hating? Is that possible? *NM* | The Lionheart | 4/12/12 12:56 a.m. |
| I for one, can't wait for E3 | Pebbles | 4/12/12 1:01 a.m. |
| Love is the new hate. *NM* | Kalamari | 4/12/12 1:25 a.m. |
| Oh Yeah? | Bones | 4/12/12 1:21 a.m. |
| Hedgemony: Voice of Reason and Love *NM* | thebruce0 | 4/12/12 1:44 a.m. |
| I'm finding it harder to express my thoughts... | Phoenix_9286 | 4/12/12 2:16 a.m. |
| Re: I'm finding it harder to express my thoughts.. | NsU Soldier | 4/12/12 5:24 a.m. |
| Josh Holmes took notice of this on twitter. *NM* | Bryan Newman | 4/12/12 2:17 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | BlueNinja | 4/12/12 5:36 a.m. |
| Of course you still have a place here. | The Lionheart | 4/12/12 11:45 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | General Vagueness | 4/16/12 6:54 p.m. |
| I don't have favorites, but you're my favorite. *NM* | Louis Wu | 4/12/12 6:44 a.m. |
| Nicely put :) *NM* | Ciarán | 4/12/12 6:48 a.m. |
| Well said. *NM* | Beckx | 4/12/12 7:23 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | DEEP NNN | 4/12/12 7:37 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | SonofMacPhisto | 4/12/12 8:38 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | CaneCutter | 4/12/12 8:06 a.m. |
| Completely Agree (Glad Someone Said It!) | ChrisTheeCrappy | 4/12/12 8:57 a.m. |
| Re: Completely Agree (Glad Someone Said It!) | JDQuackers | 4/12/12 12:18 p.m. |
| i agree | iForge | 4/12/12 10:37 a.m. |
| Finally! | Der Flatulator | 4/12/12 10:45 a.m. |
| Re: Finally! | Der Flatulator | 4/12/12 10:54 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Tawpgun | 4/12/12 10:58 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Postmortem | 4/12/12 10:58 a.m. |
| Hedge is a Hammer | Impervium | 4/12/12 11:08 a.m. |
| Well met, sir. | dogsounds | 4/12/12 12:08 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | padraig08 | 4/12/12 12:10 p.m. |
| Best thing I've read on the net in a long while! | LostSpartan987 | 4/12/12 12:36 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Cody Miller | 4/12/12 3:23 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | DEEP NNN | 4/12/12 4:03 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Hawaiian Pig | 4/12/12 11:30 p.m. |
| your thoughts on "social" | kidtsunami | 4/13/12 2:26 a.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | MacGyver10 | 4/12/12 3:31 p.m. |
| You made my day, Hedge | CortanaVII | 4/12/12 4:36 p.m. |
| Amen. *NM* | Lawnmower172 | 4/12/12 5:16 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | GreyThor | 4/12/12 8:51 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Quantum | 4/12/12 11:04 p.m. |
| My thoughts on this situation. | Gravemind | 4/13/12 6:31 p.m. |
| Re: My thoughts on this situation. | Gravemind | 4/13/12 6:39 p.m. |
| Re: My thoughts on this situation. | 343winks. | 4/14/12 12:19 p.m. |
| Like you've spoken for me. *Sorta Long* | DrDoctor | 4/13/12 11:29 p.m. |
| Change *slightly-long* | Der Flatulator | 4/14/12 8:50 a.m. |
| Re: Change *slightly-long* | DEEP NNN | 4/14/12 9:03 a.m. |
| It isn't all good. | rhubarb | 4/14/12 10:40 a.m. |
| Re: It isn't all good. | serpx | 4/14/12 2:45 p.m. |
| Re: It isn't all good. | rhubarb | 4/14/12 3:29 p.m. |
| Change for change's sake. | Gravemind | 4/14/12 7:11 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Harmanimus | 4/14/12 7:59 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Gravemind | 4/14/12 8:32 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Cody Miller | 4/14/12 10:07 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Leviathan | 4/14/12 10:52 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 12:20 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | SonofMacPhisto | 4/15/12 9:04 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Leviathan | 4/15/12 1:36 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 2:18 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Hawaiian Pig | 4/15/12 2:29 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Leviathan | 4/15/12 2:33 p.m. |
| To HP and Levi | rhubarb | 4/15/12 3:01 p.m. |
| Not at all | Leviathan | 4/15/12 3:15 p.m. |
| Re: Not at all | rhubarb | 4/15/12 3:27 p.m. |
| Re: Not at all | Leviathan | 4/15/12 3:47 p.m. |
| Warning: Unintended rant | Metalingus627 | 4/15/12 5:13 p.m. |
| Alienation is unavoidable | rhubarb | 4/15/12 5:31 p.m. |
| Re: Alienation is unavoidable | Metalingus627 | 4/15/12 5:47 p.m. |
| Because A sucks and B is an egg, obviously. | rhubarb | 4/15/12 6:31 p.m. |
| Re: Because A sucks and B is an egg, obviously. | Metalingus627 | 4/15/12 7:04 p.m. |
| My point is... | rhubarb | 4/15/12 7:55 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DHalo | 4/15/12 8:24 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | rhubarb | 4/15/12 8:45 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 9:04 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DHalo | 4/15/12 9:55 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | uberfoop | 4/15/12 10:11 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DHalo | 4/15/12 10:18 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | uberfoop | 4/15/12 10:26 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DHalo | 4/15/12 11:01 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/16/12 6:46 a.m. |
| Re: My point is... | RC Master | 4/16/12 11:12 a.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/16/12 11:52 a.m. |
| Re: to add to this | Revenant1988 | 4/16/12 12:25 p.m. |
| PirateUnicorns.bungie.org | RC Master | 4/16/12 6:23 p.m. |
| Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org | Revenant1988 | 4/16/12 7:39 p.m. |
| Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org | thebruce0 | 4/17/12 11:18 a.m. |
| Re: PirateUnicorns.bungie.org | RC Master | 4/17/12 9:11 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | RC Master | 4/16/12 6:09 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/16/12 7:21 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | uberfoop | 4/16/12 7:54 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/16/12 8:01 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | uberfoop | 4/16/12 8:06 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | General Vagueness | 4/16/12 10:43 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/17/12 7:54 a.m. |
| Re: My point is... | General Vagueness | 4/17/12 10:51 a.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/17/12 11:02 a.m. |
| Re: My point is... | General Vagueness | 4/17/12 12:37 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/17/12 1:32 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | RC Master | 4/17/12 8:33 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | DEEP NNN | 4/17/12 10:43 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | Metalingus627 | 4/16/12 2:52 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | uberfoop | 4/16/12 3:08 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | Metalingus627 | 4/16/12 10:18 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | Gravemind | 4/16/12 3:17 p.m. |
| Re: My point is... | Quirel | 4/16/12 6:17 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | SonGoharotto | 4/14/12 11:29 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Hawaiian Pig | 4/15/12 12:53 a.m. |
| I have my moments *NM* | SonGoharotto | 4/15/12 8:08 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | 343winks. | 4/15/12 3:55 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | RC Master | 4/15/12 10:32 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | Hedgemony | 4/15/12 12:30 p.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | 343winks. | 4/16/12 4:50 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | 343winks. | 4/16/12 4:45 a.m. |
| I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Louis Wu | 4/15/12 8:31 a.m. |
| Just playing Devil's advocate here... | SonGoharotto | 4/15/12 9:23 a.m. |
| Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here... | Louis Wu | 4/15/12 9:43 a.m. |
| Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here... | davidfuchs | 4/15/12 9:53 a.m. |
| Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here... | SonGoharotto | 4/15/12 11:30 a.m. |
| Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here... | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 4/15/12 12:13 p.m. |
| Re: Just playing Devil's advocate here... | General Vagueness | 4/16/12 7:05 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Gravemind | 4/15/12 12:38 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Louis Wu | 4/15/12 12:48 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 1:04 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Leviathan | 4/15/12 1:47 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 2:16 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Leviathan | 4/15/12 2:27 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Hawaiian Pig | 4/15/12 2:28 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Hawaiian Pig | 4/15/12 2:31 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Leviathan | 4/15/12 2:35 p.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | Hawaiian Pig | 4/15/12 2:54 p.m. |
| To clarify | Leviathan | 4/15/12 3:01 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | rhubarb | 4/15/12 3:07 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Schooly D | 4/15/12 3:40 p.m. |
| The question everyone is dancing around | rhubarb | 4/15/12 3:48 p.m. |
| This has nothing to do with CoD. | uberfoop | 4/15/12 4:41 p.m. |
| Re: This has nothing to do with CoD. | rhubarb | 4/15/12 5:07 p.m. |
| Re: This has nothing to do with CoD. | uberfoop | 4/15/12 5:47 p.m. |
| Re: This has nothing to do with CoD. | rhubarb | 4/15/12 6:04 p.m. |
| Re: The question everyone is dancing around | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 5:20 p.m. |
| Re: The question everyone is dancing around | rhubarb | 4/15/12 5:56 p.m. |
| Re: The question everyone is dancing around | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 6:13 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/15/12 4:01 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 5:14 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/15/12 10:10 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Cody Miller | 4/15/12 11:15 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/15/12 11:49 p.m. |
| leviathan's opinion makes mine redundant *NM* | kidtsunami | 4/16/12 12:13 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Cody Miller | 4/16/12 12:39 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/16/12 2:08 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | 343winks. | 4/16/12 6:04 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Louis Wu | 4/16/12 8:28 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Revenant1988 | 4/16/12 10:11 a.m. |
| ...........what is this | Hawaiian Pig | 4/16/12 12:33 p.m. |
| Re: ...........what is this | Louis Wu | 4/16/12 12:53 p.m. |
| Re: ...........what is this | Hawaiian Pig | 4/16/12 1:14 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Hawaiian Pig | 4/16/12 12:46 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/16/12 2:11 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Cody Miller | 4/16/12 2:13 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/16/12 2:30 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Cody Miller | 4/16/12 3:18 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/16/12 3:58 p.m. |
| This conversation has gone in an awkward direction | uberfoop | 4/16/12 4:11 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Leviathan | 4/16/12 4:32 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Miguel Chavez | 4/16/12 4:35 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Leviathan | 4/16/12 4:44 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Stephen L. (SoundEffect) | 4/16/12 9:58 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Hawaiian Pig | 4/16/12 5:36 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | 343winks. | 4/17/12 5:58 a.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Leviathan | 4/17/12 2:02 p.m. |
| Re: This conversation has gone in an awkward direc | Beckx | 4/17/12 2:22 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Louis Wu | 4/16/12 3:00 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Miguel Chavez | 4/16/12 3:28 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | 343winks. | 4/17/12 5:24 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Louis Wu | 4/17/12 7:07 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Cody Miller | 4/17/12 12:13 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | General Vagueness | 4/17/12 12:50 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Hawaiian Pig | 4/17/12 10:59 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | uberfoop | 4/18/12 12:08 a.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Miguel Chavez | 4/17/12 1:21 p.m. |
| GODWINNED *NM* | Cody Miller | 4/17/12 1:58 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Leviathan | 4/17/12 2:19 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Miguel Chavez | 4/17/12 3:51 p.m. |
| That's a lousy safe-word, Mig. *NM* | Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) | 4/17/12 4:56 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | Hawaiian Pig | 4/17/12 11:00 p.m. |
| Re: To clarify | General Vagueness | 4/17/12 10:45 a.m. |
| Re: I'm gonna rename you Chicken Little. | uberfoop | 4/15/12 4:52 p.m. |
| Change in Halo= Good | BWOLoneWolf | 4/16/12 7:17 a.m. |
| Re: Change in Halo= Good | Metalingus627 | 4/16/12 10:48 a.m. |
| Re: Change in Halo= Good | Metalingus627 | 4/16/12 10:48 a.m. |
| Now here's what I'm wondering | SonGoharotto | 4/15/12 1:25 p.m. |
| A tale of Spartan Points. | NsU Soldier | 4/15/12 5:44 p.m. |
| The Spartan Phone is ringing! | SonGoharotto | 4/15/12 9:19 p.m. |
| What if the Spartan phones... rang? *NM* | Louis Wu | 4/16/12 8:31 a.m. |
| Re: A tale of Spartan Points. | General Vagueness | 4/16/12 2:40 a.m. |
| Re: Change for change's sake. | uberfoop | 4/14/12 9:20 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | Kermit | 4/15/12 8:37 p.m. |
| Re: Present thoughts about the future *long* | General Vagueness | 4/16/12 12:45 a.m. |
| When threads get this long... | Tiny | 4/16/12 4:08 p.m. |
| Re: When threads get this long... | uberfoop | 4/16/12 4:13 p.m. |
| Re: When threads get this long... | Schooly D | 4/16/12 4:26 p.m. |
| Re: When threads get this long... | Miguel Chavez | 4/16/12 4:34 p.m. |
| This. | Urban Reflex | 4/16/12 4:53 p.m. |
| Re: This. | Quirel | 4/16/12 6:06 p.m. |
| Re: When threads get this long... | Tiny | 4/16/12 10:36 p.m. |
| This thread is too long. Here, I'll make it longer | RC Master | 4/16/12 6:51 p.m. |
| Re: This thread is too long. Here, I'll make it lo | Miguel Chavez | 4/16/12 7:22 p.m. |
| Coke tastes better from a can. | Vandle Valsher | 4/16/12 7:57 p.m. |
| Re: Coke tastes better from a can. | Miguel Chavez | 4/16/12 8:40 p.m. |
| Re: Coke tastes better from a can. | Metalingus627 | 4/16/12 10:12 p.m. |
| Re: Coke tastes better from a can. | Gravemind | 4/16/12 11:28 p.m. |
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