My two cents.





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My two cents.

Posted By: Arithmomaniac <arithmomaniac@hotmail.com> Date: 3/21/12 10:27 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? (Devil Mingy)

I've been trying to avoid posting, as I didn't think I had anything meaningful to say. But seeing that I just ruined that in the other thread, what the heck.
I don't have time for RPGs anymore, but I was following the ME series closely. I also played KOTOR and KOTOR2 back in the day, and I think the comparison is instructive.
Part of what makes the player feel like he is in control is to show them how their previous choices impacted the conclusion of the game. On the other hand, the player wants to ideally choose the end of the game also, or it breaks the immersion.
ME3 and KOTOR took opposite extremes in this. In KOTOR, if I recall correctly, your dark/light rating determines which ending you get about two-thirds into the game. In ME3, you can pick your ending at the final moment. The former has empowerment without choices, the latter has empowerment without choices. Frankly, I prefer the former - but I know many would disagree.
The best way to balance these two would to leave a final choice at the end, but present different options to different player up until that last playthrough.
Bioware could have done this without changing the fundamental nature of the ending. There are so many variables that they ham-fistedly left as foregone conclusions - where the Normandy goes, whether the Mass Relays gets destroyed, etc. - and I'm sure they could have come up with more variables besides these to incorporate.
In fact, they could have gone even further. They could have allowed a real conversation with the Catalyst, with the choices the player had previously made driving the questions they could ask, or the responses they would receive - possibly even leading to some change of heart by the Catalyst. The most obvious example would depend on how you handled the Geth/Quarian conflict - peace could make the Catalyst far more amenable to stopping the Reaper cycle without destroying the relays.
As for how to balance closure with speculation, I think closure has to win in a tie - after 100 hours of personal investment, players deserve some payoff. But it's just not a tie. You can bring closure to a local conflict without resolving a broader one. The end of Halo3 and the KOTORs comes to mind - you bring the player's problem to a slow close, but leave a hook to a new one or leave broader questions unanswered. Similarly, they could have had one last meeting on Earth between the leaders of the different species, depending on your previous choices, that acknowledged many of the questions while only answering a few of them.
As for the general problem of fan input, I'm cautiously in favor. Unlike a movie, games use control to create emotional immersion. If a developer decides "his" ending is too important to respect that at all, he should at least explicitly apologize.

Message Index

Replies:

Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* pete_the_duck 3/19/12 3:54 p.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* *IMG* BlueNinja 3/19/12 4:17 p.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* *IMG* pete_the_duck 3/19/12 4:35 p.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* Devil Mingy 3/19/12 4:39 p.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/19/12 6:24 p.m.

Sorry mate General Battuta 3/19/12 4:56 p.m.

Re: Sorry mate pete_the_duck 3/19/12 5:00 p.m.

Re: Sorry mate Metalingus627 3/19/12 5:07 p.m.

Re: Sorry mate General Battuta 3/19/12 5:48 p.m.

Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? cheapLEY 3/19/12 5:54 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? robbert014 3/19/12 6:05 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? Devil Mingy 3/19/12 6:07 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? cheapLEY 3/19/12 6:17 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/19/12 6:28 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? SIX min WHISTLE 3/19/12 6:59 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? Devil Mingy 3/19/12 7:15 p.m.

I loved the ending. munky-058 3/19/12 9:58 p.m.

My two cents. Arithmomaniac 3/21/12 10:27 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? General Battuta 3/19/12 6:16 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/19/12 6:32 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? SIX min WHISTLE 3/19/12 6:56 p.m.

I love it Jillybean 3/19/12 7:36 p.m.

Re: I love it General Battuta 3/19/12 8:00 p.m.

Re: I love it Jillybean 3/22/12 9:36 p.m.

Re: I love it Quirel 3/19/12 10:40 p.m.

Re: I love it pete_the_duck 3/20/12 1:17 a.m.

Re: Jack *spoilers* 7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 3/20/12 2:47 a.m.

Re: Jack *spoilers* pete_the_duck 3/20/12 11:58 p.m.

Re: Jack *spoilers* 7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 3/21/12 12:23 a.m.

Re: Jack *spoilers* Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/21/12 2:23 p.m.

Re: Jack *spoilers* Jillybean 3/22/12 9:45 p.m.

Re: I love it Hunt3r 3/20/12 6:41 a.m.

Re: I love it *SP* Quirel 3/20/12 2:00 p.m.

Re: I love it *SP* Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/20/12 3:30 p.m.

Re: I love it *SP* Quirel 3/20/12 11:07 p.m.

Re: I love it *SP* Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/21/12 2:19 p.m.

Re: I love it *SP* Beckx 3/21/12 2:24 p.m.

My playthrough Jillybean 3/22/12 9:39 p.m.

Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending? Metalingus627 3/19/12 11:01 p.m.

I don't like the IT. *Sp* Quirel 3/19/12 11:51 p.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* Ragashingo 3/20/12 7:47 a.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* Beckx 3/21/12 1:05 p.m.

Re: Question! *SP* Beckx 3/21/12 1:11 p.m.

Answers! *SP* MoltenSlowa 3/21/12 1:59 p.m.

Re: Answers! *SP* Beckx 3/21/12 2:03 p.m.

Re: Answers! *SP* General Battuta 3/21/12 2:20 p.m.

Re: Answers! *SP* Beckx 3/21/12 2:23 p.m.

Re: Mass Effect 3 ending *OT/SP* Beckx 3/21/12 6:30 p.m.

Bioware to make ending DLC Metalingus627 3/21/12 8:16 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Quirel 3/21/12 8:27 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Devil Mingy 3/21/12 8:53 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Metalingus627 3/21/12 8:54 p.m.

AHAHAHAHAHA Cody Miller 3/21/12 9:18 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA Bryan Newman 3/21/12 9:23 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA Quirel 3/21/12 9:24 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA SonofMacPhisto 3/21/12 10:13 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA Urban Reflex 3/21/12 10:14 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA Cody Miller 3/21/12 10:50 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA Urban Reflex 3/21/12 11:03 p.m.

Is it Bioware's call or EA's call? *NM* uberfoop 3/21/12 11:09 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA SonofMacPhisto 3/21/12 11:09 p.m.

Re: AHAHAHAHAHA uberfoop 3/21/12 10:55 p.m.

Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/21/12 11:27 p.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Cody Miller 3/22/12 12:57 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Hunt3r 3/22/12 1:47 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Gravemind 3/22/12 4:56 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... kidtsunami 3/22/12 5:08 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Leisandir 3/22/12 11:41 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/22/12 3:30 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Cody Miller 3/22/12 6:31 a.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/22/12 12:19 p.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... yakaman 3/22/12 1:37 p.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/22/12 2:51 p.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... yakaman 3/22/12 10:31 p.m.

Am I a cool guy if... katancik 3/23/12 2:28 p.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Cody Miller 3/22/12 3:48 p.m.

Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody... Spec ops Grunt 3/22/12 4:20 a.m.

Because I like video games. *NM* TDSpiral 3/22/12 12:07 p.m.

Re: Because I like video games. Beckx 3/22/12 2:52 p.m.

Really, Cody... munky-058 3/22/12 12:32 a.m.

If it says "Mass Effect" then I am already sold. Bryan Newman 3/21/12 9:21 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Leviathan 3/21/12 9:28 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Quirel 3/21/12 10:03 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC pete_the_duck 3/21/12 10:07 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC *minor SP* Devil Mingy 3/21/12 10:51 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Leisandir 3/21/12 10:08 p.m.

Having experienced what they intended... Avateur 3/21/12 11:56 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Ragashingo 3/22/12 6:33 a.m.

Re: Great article on the issue. Beckx 3/22/12 3:10 p.m.

Re: @petermolydeux Beckx 3/21/12 9:38 p.m.

Re: @petermolydeux LostSpartan987 3/22/12 1:55 a.m.

Is this free DLC? Because if it isn't..... Captain Spark 3/21/12 11:02 p.m.

Re: Bioware to make ending DLC Kalamari 3/22/12 12:15 a.m.

Somewhat related to DLC Quirel 3/22/12 12:24 a.m.

The HBO Forum Archive is maintained with WebBBS 4.33.

Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP	pete_the_duck	3/19/12 3:54 p.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP IMG	BlueNinja	3/19/12 4:17 p.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP IMG	pete_the_duck	3/19/12 4:35 p.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP	Devil Mingy	3/19/12 4:39 p.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/19/12 6:24 p.m.
Sorry mate	General Battuta	3/19/12 4:56 p.m.
Re: Sorry mate	pete_the_duck	3/19/12 5:00 p.m.
Re: Sorry mate	Metalingus627	3/19/12 5:07 p.m.
Re: Sorry mate	General Battuta	3/19/12 5:48 p.m.
Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	cheapLEY	3/19/12 5:54 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	robbert014	3/19/12 6:05 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	Devil Mingy	3/19/12 6:07 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	cheapLEY	3/19/12 6:17 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/19/12 6:28 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	SIX min WHISTLE	3/19/12 6:59 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	Devil Mingy	3/19/12 7:15 p.m.
I loved the ending.	munky-058	3/19/12 9:58 p.m.
My two cents.	Arithmomaniac	3/21/12 10:27 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	General Battuta	3/19/12 6:16 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/19/12 6:32 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	SIX min WHISTLE	3/19/12 6:56 p.m.
I love it	Jillybean	3/19/12 7:36 p.m.
Re: I love it	General Battuta	3/19/12 8:00 p.m.
Re: I love it	Jillybean	3/22/12 9:36 p.m.
Re: I love it	Quirel	3/19/12 10:40 p.m.
Re: I love it	pete_the_duck	3/20/12 1:17 a.m.
Re: Jack spoilers	7he grunt w/a plasma pistol	3/20/12 2:47 a.m.
Re: Jack spoilers	pete_the_duck	3/20/12 11:58 p.m.
Re: Jack spoilers	7he grunt w/a plasma pistol	3/21/12 12:23 a.m.
Re: Jack spoilers	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/21/12 2:23 p.m.
Re: Jack spoilers	Jillybean	3/22/12 9:45 p.m.
Re: I love it	Hunt3r	3/20/12 6:41 a.m.
Re: I love it SP	Quirel	3/20/12 2:00 p.m.
Re: I love it SP	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/20/12 3:30 p.m.
Re: I love it SP	Quirel	3/20/12 11:07 p.m.
Re: I love it SP	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/21/12 2:19 p.m.
Re: I love it SP	Beckx	3/21/12 2:24 p.m.
My playthrough	Jillybean	3/22/12 9:39 p.m.
Re: Am I the only one that LIKES the ending?	Metalingus627	3/19/12 11:01 p.m.
I don't like the IT. Sp	Quirel	3/19/12 11:51 p.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP	Ragashingo	3/20/12 7:47 a.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP	Beckx	3/21/12 1:05 p.m.
Re: Question! SP	Beckx	3/21/12 1:11 p.m.
Answers! SP	MoltenSlowa	3/21/12 1:59 p.m.
Re: Answers! SP	Beckx	3/21/12 2:03 p.m.
Re: Answers! SP	General Battuta	3/21/12 2:20 p.m.
Re: Answers! SP	Beckx	3/21/12 2:23 p.m.
Re: Mass Effect 3 ending OT/SP	Beckx	3/21/12 6:30 p.m.
Bioware to make ending DLC	Metalingus627	3/21/12 8:16 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Quirel	3/21/12 8:27 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Devil Mingy	3/21/12 8:53 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Metalingus627	3/21/12 8:54 p.m.
AHAHAHAHAHA	Cody Miller	3/21/12 9:18 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	Bryan Newman	3/21/12 9:23 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	Quirel	3/21/12 9:24 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	SonofMacPhisto	3/21/12 10:13 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	Urban Reflex	3/21/12 10:14 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	Cody Miller	3/21/12 10:50 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	Urban Reflex	3/21/12 11:03 p.m.
Is it Bioware's call or EA's call? NM	uberfoop	3/21/12 11:09 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	SonofMacPhisto	3/21/12 11:09 p.m.
Re: AHAHAHAHAHA	uberfoop	3/21/12 10:55 p.m.
Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/21/12 11:27 p.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Cody Miller	3/22/12 12:57 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Hunt3r	3/22/12 1:47 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Gravemind	3/22/12 4:56 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	kidtsunami	3/22/12 5:08 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Leisandir	3/22/12 11:41 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/22/12 3:30 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Cody Miller	3/22/12 6:31 a.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/22/12 12:19 p.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	yakaman	3/22/12 1:37 p.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	3/22/12 2:51 p.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	yakaman	3/22/12 10:31 p.m.
Am I a cool guy if...	katancik	3/23/12 2:28 p.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Cody Miller	3/22/12 3:48 p.m.
Re: Face down in the Cheerios again, Cody...	Spec ops Grunt	3/22/12 4:20 a.m.
Because I like video games. NM	TDSpiral	3/22/12 12:07 p.m.
Re: Because I like video games.	Beckx	3/22/12 2:52 p.m.
Really, Cody...	munky-058	3/22/12 12:32 a.m.
If it says "Mass Effect" then I am already sold.	Bryan Newman	3/21/12 9:21 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Leviathan	3/21/12 9:28 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Quirel	3/21/12 10:03 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	pete_the_duck	3/21/12 10:07 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC minor SP	Devil Mingy	3/21/12 10:51 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Leisandir	3/21/12 10:08 p.m.
Having experienced what they intended...	Avateur	3/21/12 11:56 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Ragashingo	3/22/12 6:33 a.m.
Re: Great article on the issue.	Beckx	3/22/12 3:10 p.m.
Re: @petermolydeux	Beckx	3/21/12 9:38 p.m.
Re: @petermolydeux	LostSpartan987	3/22/12 1:55 a.m.
Is this free DLC? Because if it isn't.....	Captain Spark	3/21/12 11:02 p.m.
Re: Bioware to make ending DLC	Kalamari	3/22/12 12:15 a.m.
Somewhat related to DLC	Quirel	3/22/12 12:24 a.m.