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Re: Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem.
Posted By: RC MasterDate: 1/31/12 1:03 a.m.

In Response To: Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem... (Hoovaloov)


: Alternative theory: the real problem isn't the TU, it's Matchmaking. If True
: Skill and Matchmaking worked perfectly in tandem to match BTB teams of all
: randoms with very similar skills, or full parties with each other with
: similar skills, the gap in player skill would not be as evident, even with
: better weapons.

The problem is, that if you apply strict skill matching, waiting times go up. If you apply party restrictions, waiting times go up.

Reach's MM system trades close skill matching for short waiting times - by design. If you remember from Halo 3, you could wait for quite a while for a game. I remember easily waiting 5 minutes for a game sometimes. In Halo 2 I remember it being even worse (the very, very few games I did play). Reach finds games much, much faster.

Especially when Halo's MM paradigm (at least up until now) has been about finding a full group of players, deciding on the match, and THEN playing FULL games, these fast matching times are important when competitors are using drop-in/drop-out that gets players into games within a few seconds. Yeah, that system has its own problems with skill-matching lop-sidedness but its a factor to consider.

In general, pure, tight, TrueSkill matching is considered to be TOO good. Most players don't want to have to play at 100% game after game to stand a chance - it's tiring. Plus you get big problems at the high and low ends with being able to find games quickly since there are less players at that skill level. So Reach opts to try and balance the teams as close as possible rather than overly worry about everyone in the game being close in skill level. Generally it actually seems to do pretty well with that even with some big disparites in skill within the teams.

You would certainly play less games, especially if you are far above or below the skill curve, if they tightened TrueSkill matching. Maybe those would be better

TrueSkill can't account for the synergistic effects of teams that know each other well playing together and that is a known weakness. But neither could Halo 2's system, and Halo 3's party restrictions were a hack that, again, massively increased waiting times.

Look at Arena - tight TrueSkill matching, party restrictions, 4v4 slayer. Should be the best thing ever right? Nope.

Longer waiting times for matches. Consistently very hard games that are wearing. Which lowers the population and increases the wait times and reduces skill matching and connection quality matching as well. And if you go in as a party of four, even longer wait times. People actually go in as parties of 2, wait until they're matched with their friends, then let matching continue to find them enemies to get around the party restrictions.


Message Index




Replies:

TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*RC Master 1/29/12 12:41 p.m.
     Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 1:12 p.m.
           Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Overdoziz 1/29/12 6:28 p.m.
     ride dat dolphin *NM*MoltenSlowa 1/29/12 1:14 p.m.
     Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 1:15 p.m.
     Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*NartFOpc 1/29/12 1:17 p.m.
           Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 1:18 p.m.
           Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*RC Master 1/29/12 6:21 p.m.
                 Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Overdoziz 1/29/12 6:27 p.m.
                       Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*FyreWulff 1/29/12 6:46 p.m.
                             Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Kalamari 1/29/12 7:13 p.m.
                                   Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*FyreWulff 1/29/12 8:28 p.m.
                                         I don't even understand why it matters anymoreRevenant1988 1/29/12 10:20 p.m.
                                         Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 10:21 p.m.
                       Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*RC Master 1/29/12 7:24 p.m.
                             Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Overdoziz 1/30/12 7:35 a.m.
                                   Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*RC Master 1/30/12 9:43 p.m.
                                         Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Overdoziz 1/31/12 8:04 a.m.
                       Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 10:19 p.m.
                             Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Revenant1988 1/29/12 10:21 p.m.
                 Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*NartFOpc 1/29/12 8:11 p.m.
     Re: TU magnum - it's pretty good *link*kidtsunami 1/29/12 7:31 p.m.
           btw, total joke, it's swat *NM*kidtsunami 1/29/12 7:37 p.m.
     The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.uberfoop 1/29/12 7:43 p.m.
           Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.RC Master 1/29/12 8:09 p.m.
           Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.Pkmnrulz240 1/29/12 10:37 p.m.
                 Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 10:44 p.m.
                 Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.RC Master 1/30/12 4:02 a.m.
                       Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.DEEP NNN 1/30/12 11:55 a.m.
                             Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.General Vagueness 1/30/12 4:16 p.m.
                             Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.Overdoziz 1/30/12 4:22 p.m.
                                   Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.Louis Wu 1/30/12 4:27 p.m.
                                   Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.uberfoop 1/30/12 4:41 p.m.
                                         Err, wait, I spoke sillyishly.uberfoop 1/30/12 4:46 p.m.
                             Re: The video doesn't emphasize the nerfle.RC Master 1/30/12 9:48 p.m.
     Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*DEEP NNN 1/29/12 8:35 p.m.
           Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*Spec ops Grunt 1/29/12 10:25 p.m.
                 Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*RC Master 1/29/12 10:34 p.m.
                       Re: TU Needle Rifle - it's pretty good *vid*kidtsunami 1/29/12 10:51 p.m.
           What's actually causing the snowballing?uberfoop 1/29/12 11:14 p.m.
                 What makes a game "meaningful"?Hoovaloov 1/30/12 7:20 a.m.
           Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem...Hoovaloov 1/30/12 7:02 a.m.
                 Re: Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem.DEEP NNN 1/30/12 8:14 a.m.
                       Re: Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem.FyreWulff 1/30/12 9:06 a.m.
                 I disagree completelyRevenant1988 1/30/12 9:13 a.m.
                       Re: I disagree completelyHoovaloov 1/30/12 9:44 a.m.
                             Re: I disagree completelyFyreWulff 1/30/12 9:53 a.m.
                             Re: I disagree completelyRevenant1988 1/30/12 11:06 a.m.
                                   Re: I disagree completelyHoovaloov 1/31/12 2:54 p.m.
                       Re: I disagree completelyLouis Wu 1/30/12 9:51 a.m.
                             Re: I disagree completelyRevenant1988 1/30/12 11:19 a.m.
                                   Re: I disagree completelyLouis Wu 1/30/12 11:29 a.m.
                                         Re: I disagree completelyRC Master 1/30/12 11:27 p.m.
                             Re: I disagree completelyOverdoziz 1/30/12 11:49 a.m.
                 Re: Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem.RC Master 1/31/12 1:03 a.m.
                       Re: Maybe the TU is just exposing another problem.Hoovaloov 1/31/12 3:17 p.m.
     Hm. 85% bloom isn't as bad as I thought.Gravemind 1/30/12 1:27 a.m.
           Re: Hm. 85% bloom isn't as bad as I thought.FyreWulff 1/30/12 1:42 a.m.
                 Re: Hm. 85% bloom isn't as bad as I thought.uberfoop 1/30/12 2:03 a.m.
                       Re: Hm. 85% bloom isn't as bad as I thought.FyreWulff 1/30/12 2:08 a.m.



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