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Re: Your analysis is grossly incomplete
Posted By: HoovaloovDate: 1/17/12 8:21 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Your analysis is grossly incomplete (uberfoop)


: In a distribution pair where different orderings show different results, what
: makes you think there's any such thing as a "neutral" ordering?
: And if there was a way to order it neutrally, wouldn't it be to order them
: randomly? After all, locking them into ascending order puts a systematic
: effect on the whole thing; there's no logical reason here that we should
: compare extrema only with other extrema and means with means and whatnot.
: Seems like, if anything, your ordering is one of the most biased possible.

: For instance, I could easily come up with a pair of two distributions which,
: under your ordering, would have one set always win every time, but which
: would tend to show a more "fair" layout under random orderings.
: For instance, suppose you have one "linear" data set, and one
: data set which is identical but slightly skewed in one direction. Under an
: ordering like yours...

: [.1,.2,.3,.4,.5,.6,.7,.8,.9,1;.11,.21,.31,.41,.51,.61,.71,.81,.91,1.01]

: ...The first group appears to have a 100% win rate. However, randomize it
: (and note that I didn't do the following intentionally; this just happened
: when I plugged two sets of random orders off the top of my head):
: [.5,1,.2,.9,.8,.3,.7,.1,.4,.6;.31,.71,1.01,.11,.41,.91,.21,.61,.81,.51]

: And now, it's 50%. Which is somewhat off from what would be expected, since
: the first set seems to have some sort of timing advantage, but it's
: nonetheless obviously much more reasonable than the first result.

: That a random ordering would be "less" biased makes sense; one way
: to measure win % would be to actually have two players fire at each at
: different pacing rates, which would effectively do the exact same thing as
: drawing values at random from each table (as opposed to drawing values
: from the same area of each ordered table, as your approach currently
: does). Which brings me to my response to your second part: I'm not
: entirely sure, actually.

: Off the top of my head, you could do it by taking a random sample from one
: set, a random sample from another set, and comparing which one wins. Then
: repeat that thousands of times, keeping track of how many wins each group
: has. That would emulate the thing I just described above, which is what
: you're really trying to measure.

Ok, I think I see what you're saying. Because both my "ordered" sets and your "random" sets are equally potential match-ups of the numbers, we need to determine the likelihood that certain match-ups will result in paced wins and losses over hundreds or thousands of trials. I believe that is a good distinction, it is definitely something I didn't think of.

I believe Excel can use arrays, and has random number generating functions. Perhaps I will try to make something that will approximate what you described.


Message Index




Replies:

Statistical Analysis of DMR BehaviorHoovaloov 1/17/12 6:22 a.m.
     Re: Statistical Analysis of DMR BehaviorDEEP NNN 1/17/12 7:27 a.m.
           Re: Statistical Analysis of DMR BehaviorHoovaloov 1/17/12 7:46 a.m.
     Your analysis is grossly incompleteRC Master 1/17/12 10:12 a.m.
           Also, a problem of definition.uberfoop 1/17/12 11:30 a.m.
                 Re: Also, a problem of definition.Hoovaloov 1/17/12 4:59 p.m.
                       Re: Also, a problem of definition.RC Master 1/17/12 7:49 p.m.
                             Re: Also, a problem of definition.Hoovaloov 1/17/12 8:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Also, a problem of definition.RC Master 1/18/12 9:35 a.m.
                                         Re: Also, a problem of definition.Hoovaloov 1/18/12 4:29 p.m.
                                               Re: Also, a problem of definition.RC Master 1/20/12 9:48 p.m.
           Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteFyreWulff 1/17/12 12:32 p.m.
                 Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteFyreWulff 1/17/12 12:33 p.m.
                 Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteSchooly D 1/17/12 1:11 p.m.
                       Re: Your analysis is grossly incompletekatancik 1/17/12 1:36 p.m.
                             Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 5:30 p.m.
                       Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteFyreWulff 1/17/12 2:26 p.m.
                             Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 5:36 p.m.
                                   Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteFyreWulff 1/17/12 6:12 p.m.
                                         Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteFyreWulff 1/17/12 6:28 p.m.
                                         Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/18/12 1:56 a.m.
                       Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 5:21 p.m.
                 Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 5:14 p.m.
           Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 4:54 p.m.
                 Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteuberfoop 1/17/12 5:13 p.m.
                       Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 5:19 p.m.
                             Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteuberfoop 1/17/12 7:32 p.m.
                                   Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/17/12 8:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Your analysis is grossly incompleteHoovaloov 1/18/12 2:03 a.m.
                                   DMR Study Update #2 (aka for uberfoop)Hoovaloov 1/20/12 7:42 a.m.
                                         Re: DMR Study Update #2 (aka for uberfoop)uberfoop 1/20/12 2:00 p.m.
                                               Re: DMR Study Update #2 (aka for uberfoop)Hoovaloov 1/20/12 5:16 p.m.
                                         Re: DMR Study Update #2 (aka for uberfoop)RC Master 1/20/12 2:29 p.m.
                                               Re: DMR Study Update #2 (aka for uberfoop)Hoovaloov 1/20/12 6:42 p.m.
                                                     Re: DMR Study Update #3 (aka for Hoovaloov)RC Master 1/23/12 9:49 p.m.
                                                           Re: DMR Study Update #3 (aka for Hoovaloov)Hoovaloov 1/24/12 5:10 a.m.
                                                                 Edit: "pacehot" should be "headshot"Hoovaloov 1/24/12 11:39 a.m.
                                                                 re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 1/27/12 6:15 a.m.
                                                                       Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)Hoovaloov 1/28/12 6:20 a.m.
                                                                             Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 1/28/12 11:28 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)Gravemind 1/28/12 2:01 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 1/28/12 5:52 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)Gravemind 1/28/12 10:39 p.m.
                                                                                                     Whole Sandbox Is Not BrokenHoovaloov 1/31/12 4:09 p.m.
                                                                                                           I agree but...Spec ops Grunt 1/31/12 4:38 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: I agree but...Hoovaloov 1/31/12 4:45 p.m.
                                                                                                           No no no no no no!!!Bryan Newman 1/31/12 5:48 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: No no no no no no!!!Phoenix_9286 1/31/12 6:13 p.m.
                                                                                                                       I meant no disrespect...Bryan Newman 1/31/12 6:51 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: No no no no no no!!!kidtsunami 1/31/12 6:13 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Whole Sandbox Is Not BrokenSEspider 1/31/12 9:26 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Whole Sandbox Is Not BrokenSpec ops Grunt 1/31/12 9:36 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Whole Sandbox Is Not BrokenRC Master 2/1/12 5:41 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Whole Sandbox Is Not BrokenHoovaloov 2/1/12 12:33 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Whole Sandbox Is Not BrokenGravemind 2/3/12 4:06 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)General Vagueness 1/29/12 12:03 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 1/29/12 12:42 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)General Vagueness 1/29/12 12:50 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 1/29/12 12:54 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)General Vagueness 1/30/12 2:02 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 1/30/12 9:59 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)Hoovaloov 1/30/12 9:22 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)RC Master 2/1/12 6:46 a.m.
                                                                                               All this said...RC Master 2/1/12 6:53 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: All this said...DEEP NNN 2/1/12 7:43 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 2:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: All this said...Louis Wu 2/1/12 3:00 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 3:21 p.m.
                                                                                                                             even if we hate the TUkidtsunami 2/1/12 3:50 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: even if we hate the TUHoovaloov 2/1/12 4:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: even if we hate the TUFyreWulff 2/2/12 12:39 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: even if we hate the TUGravemind 2/1/12 6:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: All this said...CaneCutter 2/1/12 4:48 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Make "me" the happiest... *NM*CaneCutter 2/1/12 4:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: All this said...Gravemind 2/1/12 6:42 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 7:12 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: All this said...Gravemind 2/2/12 2:23 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: All this said... *IMG*Hoovaloov 2/2/12 3:28 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: All this said...RC Master 2/2/12 6:58 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: All this said...Gravemind 2/2/12 7:36 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         wut?RC Master 2/2/12 7:46 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: wut?Gravemind 2/2/12 8:28 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Oh, wow...RC Master 2/2/12 9:21 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: All this said...DEEP NNN 2/1/12 3:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 4:19 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: All this said...DEEP NNN 2/1/12 5:54 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: All this said...RC Master 2/1/12 6:16 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 6:21 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: All this said...Louis Wu 2/1/12 6:31 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               ditto *NM*kidtsunami 2/1/12 6:40 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 6:58 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: All this said...DEEP NNN 2/1/12 6:47 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: All this said...Hoovaloov 2/1/12 6:51 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: All this said...DEEP NNN 2/1/12 8:28 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: All this said...DEEP NNN 2/1/12 4:08 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: re: DMR Study Update (new spreadsheet)Hoovaloov 2/1/12 2:02 p.m.
     Re: Statistical Analysis of DMR BehaviorDEEP NNN 1/17/12 5:04 p.m.
           Re: Statistical Analysis of DMR BehaviorHoovaloov 1/17/12 5:28 p.m.
                 Re: Statistical Analysis of DMR BehaviorDEEP NNN 1/17/12 6:13 p.m.
     More numbers, better pictureRC Master 1/17/12 7:43 p.m.
           Blog Post UpdatedHoovaloov 1/18/12 1:27 a.m.
                 You misunderstand what the median is...RC Master 1/18/12 9:51 a.m.
                       Chart Updated with MediansHoovaloov 1/18/12 10:18 p.m.
     Apparently I'm a troll?RC Master 1/20/12 6:43 p.m.
           Dude. *NM*kanbo 1/20/12 6:54 p.m.
           Re: Apparently I'm a troll?DEEP NNN 1/20/12 7:04 p.m.
           I think there was trolling involved.NsU Soldier 1/20/12 7:08 p.m.
           Re: Apparently I'm a troll?SonofMacPhisto 1/20/12 7:08 p.m.
           Re: Apparently I'm a troll?Flynn J Taggart 1/20/12 8:54 p.m.
           Re: Apparently I'm a troll?Hoovaloov 1/25/12 6:45 p.m.
     DMR Study Maps+Gametypes Available In File ShareHoovaloov 1/27/12 3:29 a.m.
           Re: DMR Study Maps+Gametypes Available In File ShaRC Master 1/27/12 6:16 a.m.



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