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Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^
Posted By: uberfoop <atkinso2@seattleu.edu>	Date: 1/3/12 8:23 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^ (General Vagueness) : So the process is broken, then? Not necessarily. It means a different process is being used. One which is arguably less reliable, but is still capable of working. : Actually, don't they usually get a lot of it : done in lower detail and then look at it and then make changes? To an extent, yeah, but even then you're limited in how well you can visualize something, and in how much you can do when you're that far along the process. : (I've : never understood the assumed requirement for massive chunks to be : rewritten rather than just taking what doesn't work and fixing or : replacing it, and fixing the areas that are around it or don't work well : enough.) Components of a story or a game or anything don't exist in isolation. When you're trying to realize an idea in writing, oftentimes the entire structure of your first draft will seem clumsy in such a way that the "fix" would require scrapping some ideas, adding new ones, and completely rearranging others into a totally different mix of paragraphs. You can't just change a single sentence here or there, because that sentence was mutually reliant on those around it, and if you change those around it, this further propagates until you have a big mess. When you have such a structural problem, it's far easier to just nuke and pave. ^I actually wrote the above block twice; the first sentence is the same, but everything else had to be totally shuffled. It's still not good, but it's far more intelligible than my first attempt. : Either way, I'd think you could do that with the actual story : while the rest of the team does something else... Same issue as above, things don't exist in isolation. This is especially relevant since things like color schema are capable of being so integral to the storytelling. Suppose that, originally, the last main level in Reach had the PoA resting in the middle of some forest. Then suppose that, late in development, the story team decides that it would be much more emotionally effective if the level symbolically visually referenced The Maw, with the brown wasteland landscape and the PoA in its iconic cliffside position. Now the 2d artists need to create a new rocky texture set, the level designers need to redesign the encounters to accomodate the non-woodland-ish terrain, which could quite likely work out best with a full restructuring of the level... Pretty soon, campaign content development costs have shot up by 10%.

Message Index

As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	Seraph XXVII	1/3/12 4:55 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	FyreWulff	1/3/12 5:08 a.m.
^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	Bryan Newman	1/3/12 5:55 a.m.
Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	FyreWulff	1/3/12 10:08 a.m.
Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 2:31 p.m.
Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	FyreWulff	1/3/12 3:01 p.m.
Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 4:08 p.m.
I know the answer *img*	Revenant1988	1/3/12 4:11 p.m.
Re: I know the answer *img*	LostSpartan987	1/3/12 5:45 p.m.
Trololol *NM*	stabbim	1/3/12 9:04 p.m.
Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	FyreWulff	1/3/12 5:32 p.m.
Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 7:14 p.m.
Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enough	General Vagueness	1/3/12 5:10 p.m.
Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enough	FyreWulff	1/3/12 5:25 p.m.
Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enough	General Vagueness	1/3/12 6:53 p.m.
Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enough	davidfuchs	1/3/12 7:41 p.m.
Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enough	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 8:01 p.m.
Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enough	Quirel	1/3/12 10:06 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	Gravemind	1/3/12 7:22 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .	Hedgemony	1/3/12 9:27 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .	DEEP NNN	1/3/12 12:25 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .	FyreWulff	1/3/12 12:31 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .	DEEP NNN	1/3/12 12:59 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	FyreWulff	1/3/12 10:03 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	FyreWulff	1/3/12 10:07 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	davidfuchs	1/3/12 1:42 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	General Vagueness	1/3/12 4:15 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	pete_the_duck	1/3/12 5:25 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	Gravemind	1/3/12 7:50 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	pete_the_duck	1/3/12 9:57 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	FyreWulff	1/4/12 12:58 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	Gravemind	1/3/12 7:58 p.m.
Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	Jillybean	1/3/12 6:52 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	General Vagueness	1/3/12 7:17 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	uberfoop	1/3/12 7:25 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	General Vagueness	1/3/12 7:52 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	Vandle Valsher	1/3/12 7:57 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	uberfoop	1/3/12 8:23 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	Quirel	1/3/12 10:12 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	uberfoop	1/3/12 11:01 p.m.
Oh, unless...	uberfoop	1/3/12 11:09 p.m.
Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 7:26 p.m.
My two Cents	crzymnky069	1/4/12 5:43 a.m.
Re: My two Cents	Devil Mingy	1/4/12 6:24 a.m.
Re: My two Cents	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 11:44 a.m.
Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Gravemind	1/4/12 10:11 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 10:21 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Quirel	1/4/12 11:10 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 12:03 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Gravemind	1/4/12 11:16 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Quirel	1/4/12 11:47 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 12:11 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Gravemind	1/5/12 12:24 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 2:19 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	DHalo	1/5/12 2:36 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 2:45 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Quirel	1/5/12 4:18 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 12:29 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Gravemind	1/5/12 4:07 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 12:42 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	DHalo	1/5/12 11:08 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	DEEP NNN	1/5/12 2:41 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 2:50 a.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	General Vagueness	1/5/12 5:02 a.m.
Except for Douglas Adams *NM*	scarab	1/4/12 11:10 p.m.
Well, yes, obviously. :) *NM*	Gravemind	1/4/12 11:46 p.m.
Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.	General Vagueness	1/5/12 4:43 a.m.
Re: In this economy?	Hedgemony	1/4/12 10:25 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	kanbo	1/3/12 5:25 a.m.
Agreed	Flynn J Taggart	1/3/12 9:21 a.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	DEEP NNN	1/3/12 12:22 p.m.
Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 1:49 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 2:28 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 3:13 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	FyreWulff	1/3/12 3:22 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Beckx	1/3/12 3:23 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	stabbim	1/3/12 9:53 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Revenant1988	1/3/12 3:25 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Leisandir	1/3/12 3:34 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	FyreWulff	1/3/12 4:04 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Leisandir	1/3/12 4:25 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	NsU Soldier	1/4/12 12:04 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/3/12 6:20 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/3/12 6:11 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	stabbim	1/3/12 10:48 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 11:15 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Beckx	1/3/12 11:28 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/4/12 12:03 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	FyreWulff	1/3/12 3:11 p.m.
No, and yes.	Revenant1988	1/3/12 3:20 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	General Vagueness	1/3/12 6:07 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 7:18 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	General Vagueness	1/3/12 7:42 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 8:03 p.m.
What happened to Carter.	NsU Soldier	1/4/12 12:46 a.m.
Re: What happened to Carter.	stabbim	1/4/12 7:28 a.m.
Also...	stabbim	1/4/12 7:29 a.m.
Re: No, and yes.	General Vagueness	1/4/12 6:01 a.m.
Re: No, and yes.	GrimBrother IV	1/3/12 8:28 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	General Vagueness	1/4/12 6:29 a.m.
Re: No, and yes.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 11:47 a.m.
Re: No, and yes.	stabbim	1/4/12 4:16 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 5:03 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	Leisandir	1/4/12 10:16 p.m.
Re: No, and yes.	General Vagueness	1/5/12 4:05 a.m.
Re: No, and yes.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 12:38 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/3/12 5:29 p.m.
Rightish, and wrong.	Quirel	1/3/12 5:50 p.m.
Re: Rightish, and wrong.	7he grunt w/a plasma pistol	1/3/12 6:04 p.m.
Re: Rightish, and wrong.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 7:16 p.m.
Re: Rightish, and wrong.	Quirel	1/3/12 10:06 p.m.
Re: Rightish, and wrong.	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 11:28 p.m.
What about Harvest?	BlueNinja	1/6/12 10:09 a.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 11:47 a.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	BlueNinja	1/6/12 12:04 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	The Loot	1/6/12 1:55 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 3:47 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Leviathan	1/6/12 6:54 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 7:06 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Bry	1/6/12 11:36 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	General Vagueness	1/6/12 6:58 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 7:07 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Urban Reflex	1/6/12 2:19 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	7he grunt w/a plasma pistol	1/6/12 2:26 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	SonofMacPhisto	1/6/12 4:25 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	davidfuchs	1/6/12 5:38 p.m.
Re: What about Harvest?	Beckx	1/6/12 5:55 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Revenant1988	1/3/12 3:15 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 4:19 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Flynn J Taggart	1/4/12 12:11 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 12:41 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Flynn J Taggart	1/4/12 1:01 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Quirel	1/4/12 2:35 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Flynn J Taggart	1/4/12 4:39 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/3/12 6:04 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/3/12 4:27 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 8:23 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	GrimBrother IV	1/3/12 8:21 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 8:25 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	GrimBrother IV	1/3/12 8:33 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 9:27 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	GrimBrother IV	1/3/12 9:41 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	uberfoop	1/3/12 9:43 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Beckx	1/3/12 9:51 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/3/12 10:03 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 11:24 p.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	davidfuchs	1/4/12 12:18 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 12:43 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/5/12 3:32 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/5/12 12:33 p.m.
Also agreed and a note on Spartan deaths	Flynn J Taggart	1/4/12 12:52 a.m.
Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself	General Vagueness	1/4/12 6:24 a.m.
Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Important.	Leviathan	1/3/12 9:04 p.m.
Hear Hear	davidfuchs	1/3/12 9:30 p.m.
Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importan	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/3/12 11:20 p.m.
Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importan	uberfoop	1/4/12 12:29 a.m.
Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importan	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 12:45 a.m.
Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importan	davidfuchs	1/4/12 1:03 a.m.
Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importan	uberfoop	1/4/12 1:23 a.m.
Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importan	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/4/12 2:16 a.m.
Coincidentally	Beckx	1/4/12 11:20 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	Beckx	1/3/12 3:20 p.m.
Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .	SonofMacPhisto	1/5/12 6:35 p.m.
I like Reach.	Postmortem	1/3/12 5:24 p.m.
Re: I like Reach.	General Vagueness	1/3/12 6:49 p.m.
Re: I like Reach.	stabbim	1/3/12 8:59 p.m.
Just gonna leave this here:	Dervish	1/4/12 12:32 a.m.
Re: Just gonna leave this here:	JDQuackers	1/5/12 4:39 p.m.
Re: Just gonna leave this here:	Dervish	1/6/12 3:50 a.m.
Re: Just gonna leave this here:	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 3:59 a.m.
Re: Just gonna leave this here:	JDQuackers	1/6/12 1:38 p.m.
Re: Just gonna leave this here:	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 3:54 p.m.
Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*	JDQuackers	1/6/12 4:04 p.m.
I concur	Revenant1988	1/6/12 4:20 p.m.
Re: Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	1/6/12 4:49 p.m.
Re: Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*	JDQuackers	1/6/12 6:31 p.m.
Re: Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*	Bry	1/6/12 11:49 p.m.
Re: Just gonna leave this here:	Dervish	1/6/12 4:39 p.m.
Regardless of canonity	C.W. Miller	1/4/12 7:04 a.m.
Re: Regardless of canonity	DEEP NNN	1/4/12 12:22 p.m.
Re: Regardless of canonity	C.W. Miller	1/4/12 3:24 p.m.