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Re: Forget canon, what about the story itself
Posted By: Revenant1988 <dga1988@yahoo.com>Date: 1/3/12 3:15 p.m.

In Response To: Forget canon, what about the story itself (davidfuchs)


: And yet I never cared about what happened to the members of Noble Team,
: possibly excluding Jorge. We never got enough interaction to make some of
: the 'character moments' make sense. Some of them had shoehorned in deaths
: that didn't feel like they mattered (I've blown up plenty of Scarabs in my
: day, so Carter, please, I can take this one down without you going at it
: like a death wish.) That itself is a massive core failure of a game that's
: supposed to be emotionally affecting. I laughed when Kat got shot because
: I was coming off playing TotS where she continually hopped into my
: abandoned vehicle and ran me over with her drunken driving. There just
: wasn't much to engage me there, even if Marty's music was trying its best.

I will say that I had trouble feeling much for the characters in Reach. There are a few reasons for this.

1:) From the beginning, you know not to get attached to them because you know they are all going to die.
2:) Call me a purist, but when I thought of Noble team in the early days, I figured it would all be
S-II so when it was revealed that they were S-III I lost a little interest because again, I knew they were going to be disposable heroes. Jorge was an exception to this, being the first S-II in a game (other than halo wars) that you get to interact with outside of Master Chief.
3:) I actually was not a fan of seeing the other spartans faces. Regardless of being a II or a III, I've always liked the fact that they were faceless, but you could still tell them apart by their mannerisms. Ever since Nylunds TFoR, I've imagined a squad of spartans that look like Master Chief, but are not Master Chief. Being able to tell them apart with subtle differences in their armor markings or service numbers is what I wanted to see. The way they were done in Halo Wars is my favorite, and how I would like to see it in the future. Does that make them a little harder to tell apart? Generic? Yes, but I don't like seeing all the crazy variations of the armors. For me, it became hard to look at them any differently than just MP avatars you see in MP. In Halo 3 for instance, you could make your spartan look just stock like Master Chief, but you could not get his exact color. To me, that makes a world of difference for some reason. I know to treat MP and Campaign worlds differently, but on a sub-conscience level it makes me notice it and it affects my thinking, my ability to connect to them as story characters and not just MP avatars. For me, its about finding that perfect balance between making them stand apart just enough while still making them fit with everyone else. I don't know if that makes sense or not, to me it does.

What I will say to you regarding the way they each died:

1.) Not every spartan is supposed to be Master Chief. They are different. Remember, he's just "lucky" compared to the others. The most well rounded. Not the best sniper, not the best heavy specialists, not the communications guy, not the best leader. He is what you might say, the best symbol.

2.) Kat getting shot in the head makes total sense. As Loftus pointed out, there is a reason the shields didn't do their job. Remember, Spartan armor in the universe is a tad different than how it behaves in game. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this since I say it to these die-hards so often, but some things are just for gameplay. GAMEPLAY. They need to be taken at face value. In Nylunds TFoR, before the spartans get the upgrade to their armor that gives them shields, all it is is just a suit of armor. Its not bullet proof, its not plasma proof, its bullet and plasma resistant Just like with body armor today, there is only so much damage they can take before they loose their overall usefulness. Once it passes that threshold, its not going to do its job. The shields supplement this. It is to keep them alive, where had they been exposed, they would die. When Sam takes that plasma to his chest, his armor saves his life. Had he been clothed like a marine, he'd be toast. The only reason he dies, it that he can't go back into space since the seal has been breached. No helmet is totally bullet proof either, so while kats helmet might have deflected a small arms fire round, human based, anything larger, armor piercing, or plasma based is still going to go through her face like a knife through butter. Can you imagine how thick a helmet would need to be to stop something like that, without shields?

3.) Carter was already mortally wounded by this point. How else can he be useful aside from distracting the Covenant from 6 and Emile? By taking a few out with him. makes sense to me. Again, not every Spartan, especially a Spartan III is going to be like Master Chief. Again, remember to take some of the game play stuff at face value. Yes, we destroy several scarabs in H2-H3 as Master Chief, but that doesn't matter because hes the goddamned Batma- ER Master Chief. Could other Spartans take one down individually? Probably. It would still likely be a suicide mission. Even Chief had help from the UNSC for most of them, and the ones you can take out in ODST as an ODST you still have help from your other ODST's.

TL;DR: I too, had trouble connecting with the S-III's, but I don't have a problem with what they did or how they died in the game.


Message Index




Replies:

As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .Seraph XXVII 1/3/12 4:55 a.m.
     Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .FyreWulff 1/3/12 5:08 a.m.
           ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)Bryan Newman 1/3/12 5:55 a.m.
                 Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)FyreWulff 1/3/12 10:08 a.m.
                       Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 2:31 p.m.
                             Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)FyreWulff 1/3/12 3:01 p.m.
                                   Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 4:08 p.m.
                                         I know the answer *img*Revenant1988 1/3/12 4:11 p.m.
                                               Re: I know the answer *img*LostSpartan987 1/3/12 5:45 p.m.
                                               Trololol *NM*stabbim 1/3/12 9:04 p.m.
                                         Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)FyreWulff 1/3/12 5:32 p.m.
                                               Re: ^like face book we need a dislike button. :)Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 7:14 p.m.
                                   Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enoughGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 5:10 p.m.
                                         Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enoughFyreWulff 1/3/12 5:25 p.m.
                                               Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enoughGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 6:53 p.m.
                                                     Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enoughdavidfuchs 1/3/12 7:41 p.m.
                                                           Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enoughStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 8:01 p.m.
                                                                 Re: didn't like the post title, oddly enoughQuirel 1/3/12 10:06 p.m.
           Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .Gravemind 1/3/12 7:22 a.m.
                 Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .Hedgemony 1/3/12 9:27 a.m.
                       Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .DEEP NNN 1/3/12 12:25 p.m.
                             Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .FyreWulff 1/3/12 12:31 p.m.
                                   Re: As much as I enjoy HBO . . .DEEP NNN 1/3/12 12:59 p.m.
                 Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .FyreWulff 1/3/12 10:03 a.m.
                       Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .FyreWulff 1/3/12 10:07 a.m.
                             Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .davidfuchs 1/3/12 1:42 p.m.
                                   Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .General Vagueness 1/3/12 4:15 p.m.
                                         Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .pete_the_duck 1/3/12 5:25 p.m.
                                               Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .Gravemind 1/3/12 7:50 p.m.
                                                     Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .pete_the_duck 1/3/12 9:57 p.m.
                                                           Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .FyreWulff 1/4/12 12:58 a.m.
                       Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .Gravemind 1/3/12 7:58 p.m.
           Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^Jillybean 1/3/12 6:52 p.m.
                 Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^General Vagueness 1/3/12 7:17 p.m.
                       Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^uberfoop 1/3/12 7:25 p.m.
                             Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^General Vagueness 1/3/12 7:52 p.m.
                                   Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^Vandle Valsher 1/3/12 7:57 p.m.
                                   Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^uberfoop 1/3/12 8:23 p.m.
                                         Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^Quirel 1/3/12 10:12 p.m.
                                               Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^uberfoop 1/3/12 11:01 p.m.
                                                     Oh, unless...uberfoop 1/3/12 11:09 p.m.
                 Re: Yes! This is how I've always felt! ^Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 7:26 p.m.
                       My two Centscrzymnky069 1/4/12 5:43 a.m.
                             Re: My two CentsDevil Mingy 1/4/12 6:24 a.m.
                                   Re: My two CentsStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 11:44 a.m.
                                         Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Gravemind 1/4/12 10:11 p.m.
                                               Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 10:21 p.m.
                                                     Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Quirel 1/4/12 11:10 p.m.
                                                           Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 12:03 a.m.
                                                     Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Gravemind 1/4/12 11:16 p.m.
                                                           Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Quirel 1/4/12 11:47 p.m.
                                                           Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 12:11 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Gravemind 1/5/12 12:24 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 2:19 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.DHalo 1/5/12 2:36 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 2:45 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Quirel 1/5/12 4:18 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 12:29 p.m.
                                                                       Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Gravemind 1/5/12 4:07 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 12:42 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.DHalo 1/5/12 11:08 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.DEEP NNN 1/5/12 2:41 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 2:50 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.General Vagueness 1/5/12 5:02 a.m.
                                               Except for Douglas Adams *NM*scarab 1/4/12 11:10 p.m.
                                                     Well, yes, obviously. :) *NM*Gravemind 1/4/12 11:46 p.m.
                                               Re: Sci-fi writers have no sense of scale.General Vagueness 1/5/12 4:43 a.m.
                             Re: In this economy?Hedgemony 1/4/12 10:25 a.m.
     Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .kanbo 1/3/12 5:25 a.m.
           AgreedFlynn J Taggart 1/3/12 9:21 a.m.
           Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .DEEP NNN 1/3/12 12:22 p.m.
     Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 1:49 p.m.
           Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 2:28 p.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 3:13 p.m.
                       Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfFyreWulff 1/3/12 3:22 p.m.
                             Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfBeckx 1/3/12 3:23 p.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfstabbim 1/3/12 9:53 p.m.
                             Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfRevenant1988 1/3/12 3:25 p.m.
                             Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfLeisandir 1/3/12 3:34 p.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfFyreWulff 1/3/12 4:04 p.m.
                                         Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfLeisandir 1/3/12 4:25 p.m.
                                               Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfNsU Soldier 1/4/12 12:04 a.m.
                                         Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 6:20 p.m.
                             Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 6:11 p.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfstabbim 1/3/12 10:48 p.m.
                                         Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 11:15 p.m.
                                               Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfBeckx 1/3/12 11:28 p.m.
                                                     Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/4/12 12:03 a.m.
           Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfFyreWulff 1/3/12 3:11 p.m.
                 No, and yes.Revenant1988 1/3/12 3:20 p.m.
                       Re: No, and yes.General Vagueness 1/3/12 6:07 p.m.
                             Re: No, and yes.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 7:18 p.m.
                                   Re: No, and yes.General Vagueness 1/3/12 7:42 p.m.
                                         Re: No, and yes.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 8:03 p.m.
                                               What happened to Carter.NsU Soldier 1/4/12 12:46 a.m.
                                                     Re: What happened to Carter.stabbim 1/4/12 7:28 a.m.
                                                           Also...stabbim 1/4/12 7:29 a.m.
                                               Re: No, and yes.General Vagueness 1/4/12 6:01 a.m.
                                         Re: No, and yes.GrimBrother IV 1/3/12 8:28 p.m.
                                               Re: No, and yes.General Vagueness 1/4/12 6:29 a.m.
                                                     Re: No, and yes.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 11:47 a.m.
                                                           Re: No, and yes.stabbim 1/4/12 4:16 p.m.
                                                                 Re: No, and yes.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 5:03 p.m.
                                                                       Re: No, and yes.Leisandir 1/4/12 10:16 p.m.
                                                           Re: No, and yes.General Vagueness 1/5/12 4:05 a.m.
                                                                 Re: No, and yes.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 12:38 p.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 5:29 p.m.
                 Rightish, and wrong.Quirel 1/3/12 5:50 p.m.
                       Re: Rightish, and wrong.7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 1/3/12 6:04 p.m.
                       Re: Rightish, and wrong.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 7:16 p.m.
                             Re: Rightish, and wrong.Quirel 1/3/12 10:06 p.m.
                                   Re: Rightish, and wrong.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 11:28 p.m.
                 What about Harvest?BlueNinja 1/6/12 10:09 a.m.
                       Re: What about Harvest?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 11:47 a.m.
                             Re: What about Harvest?BlueNinja 1/6/12 12:04 p.m.
                             Re: What about Harvest?The Loot 1/6/12 1:55 p.m.
                                   Re: What about Harvest?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 3:47 p.m.
                                         Re: What about Harvest?Leviathan 1/6/12 6:54 p.m.
                                               Re: What about Harvest?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 7:06 p.m.
                                                     Re: What about Harvest?Bry 1/6/12 11:36 p.m.
                             Re: What about Harvest?General Vagueness 1/6/12 6:58 p.m.
                                   Re: What about Harvest?Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 7:07 p.m.
                       Re: What about Harvest?Urban Reflex 1/6/12 2:19 p.m.
                             Re: What about Harvest?7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 1/6/12 2:26 p.m.
                             Re: What about Harvest?SonofMacPhisto 1/6/12 4:25 p.m.
                                   Re: What about Harvest?davidfuchs 1/6/12 5:38 p.m.
                                   Re: What about Harvest?Beckx 1/6/12 5:55 p.m.
           Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfRevenant1988 1/3/12 3:15 p.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 4:19 p.m.
                       Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfFlynn J Taggart 1/4/12 12:11 a.m.
                             Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 12:41 a.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfFlynn J Taggart 1/4/12 1:01 a.m.
                                         Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfQuirel 1/4/12 2:35 a.m.
                                               Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfFlynn J Taggart 1/4/12 4:39 a.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 6:04 p.m.
           Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/3/12 4:27 p.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 8:23 p.m.
           Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGrimBrother IV 1/3/12 8:21 p.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 8:25 p.m.
                       Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGrimBrother IV 1/3/12 8:33 p.m.
                             Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 9:27 p.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGrimBrother IV 1/3/12 9:41 p.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfuberfoop 1/3/12 9:43 p.m.
                                         Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfBeckx 1/3/12 9:51 p.m.
                                               Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/3/12 10:03 p.m.
                                   Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 11:24 p.m.
                                         Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfdavidfuchs 1/4/12 12:18 a.m.
                                               Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 12:43 a.m.
                                                     Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/5/12 3:32 a.m.
                                                           Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/5/12 12:33 p.m.
                 Also agreed and a note on Spartan deathsFlynn J Taggart 1/4/12 12:52 a.m.
                 Re: Forget canon, what about the story itselfGeneral Vagueness 1/4/12 6:24 a.m.
           Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Important.Leviathan 1/3/12 9:04 p.m.
                 Hear Heardavidfuchs 1/3/12 9:30 p.m.
                 Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is ImportanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/3/12 11:20 p.m.
                       Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importanuberfoop 1/4/12 12:29 a.m.
                             Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is ImportanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 12:45 a.m.
                                   Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importandavidfuchs 1/4/12 1:03 a.m.
                                         Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is Importanuberfoop 1/4/12 1:23 a.m.
                                         Re: Suspension of Disbelief: Why Canon is ImportanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/4/12 2:16 a.m.
                                   CoincidentallyBeckx 1/4/12 11:20 p.m.
     Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .Beckx 1/3/12 3:20 p.m.
           Re: As much as I enjoyed Reach . . .SonofMacPhisto 1/5/12 6:35 p.m.
     I like Reach.Postmortem 1/3/12 5:24 p.m.
           Re: I like Reach.General Vagueness 1/3/12 6:49 p.m.
           Re: I like Reach.stabbim 1/3/12 8:59 p.m.
     Just gonna leave this here:Dervish 1/4/12 12:32 a.m.
           Re: Just gonna leave this here:JDQuackers 1/5/12 4:39 p.m.
                 Re: Just gonna leave this here:Dervish 1/6/12 3:50 a.m.
                       Re: Just gonna leave this here:Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 3:59 a.m.
                             Re: Just gonna leave this here:JDQuackers 1/6/12 1:38 p.m.
                                   Re: Just gonna leave this here:Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 3:54 p.m.
                                         Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*JDQuackers 1/6/12 4:04 p.m.
                                               I concurRevenant1988 1/6/12 4:20 p.m.
                                               Re: Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 1/6/12 4:49 p.m.
                                                     Re: Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*JDQuackers 1/6/12 6:31 p.m.
                                                     Re: Hmmm I guess Glasslands *Spoilers*Bry 1/6/12 11:49 p.m.
                             Re: Just gonna leave this here:Dervish 1/6/12 4:39 p.m.
     Regardless of canonityC.W. Miller 1/4/12 7:04 a.m.
           Re: Regardless of canonityDEEP NNN 1/4/12 12:22 p.m.
                 Re: Regardless of canonityC.W. Miller 1/4/12 3:24 p.m.



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