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Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...
Posted By: uberfoop <atkinso2@seattleu.edu>Date: 6/14/11 2:09 p.m.

In Response To: Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then... (Narcogen)


As I've noted before, I've been at a Reach LAN. I can safely say that, at least for myself, the LAN environment does not make the luck-based frustration go away.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that it's an integral part of the gameplay model. You agreed that Reach implimented skinner box elements. Skinner box elements in gameplay work by having chance-based success highs that encourage a player to keep playing for, even in times when they're not having as much fun. And in a model where that success-high is chance based, in a competitive multiplayer environment, you absolutely wind up giving other players chance-based unsuccess-lows; it's unnavoidable, and it's a major part of gameplay frustration.

When you say that you'd rather have those 5 kills than none with your 15 deaths, you don't take into account why those 15 deaths that go alongside the 5 kills are frustrating in the first place; you feel cheated by them in the same, but reverse, way that the chance-successes make the player feel entitled and powerful. The very thing that makes those 5 kills happen is the thing that makes those 15 deaths obnoxious.

Though, rather unfortunately from my standpoint, I must concede that you're right about one major thing: the skinner box model is fantastic from the standpoint of a producer, even if I think it tends to be problematic gamer-side. I would argue that, at least at some level, parts of the MMORPG market exists because of that flaw in human intuition which, in extreme cases, can keep people playing a game even past the point where it stops being fun, if the luck-based highs are there and are paced in the most abusive ways (something which the MMORPG industry refined with great success early in the last decade, and which is easier to do in that genre than most).
Not that I wish my argument against the modern Halo gameplay model to sound so extreme. I like Reach, even if I don't like it as much as Halo 1.


Message Index




Replies:

Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*RC Master 6/8/11 7:26 p.m.
     404 not found *NM*ZaneZavin 6/8/11 7:34 p.m.
     Fixed linkChris101b 6/8/11 7:40 p.m.
           Good news! They have what you want right here...kapowaz 6/15/11 7:15 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*katancik 6/8/11 9:06 p.m.
           The pointsnakegriffin 6/8/11 10:04 p.m.
                 Re: The pointRC Master 6/21/11 7:21 a.m.
                       Re: The pointLouis Wu 6/21/11 8:06 a.m.
                             Like me!JDQuackers 6/21/11 8:13 a.m.
                                   Re: Like me!uberfoop 6/22/11 9:04 p.m.
                             Re: The pointRC Master 6/22/11 5:52 a.m.
                       Re: The pointDEEP NNN 6/21/11 8:47 a.m.
                       Re: The pointBry 6/21/11 9:12 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*TDSpiral 6/8/11 10:07 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*kanbo 6/8/11 10:32 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*TDSpiral 6/8/11 11:00 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*snakegriffin 6/8/11 11:17 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*kanbo 6/9/11 12:05 a.m.
                                   Yeah that was awesome! Want more. *NM*scarab 6/9/11 1:21 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*katancik 6/9/11 1:24 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*RC Master 6/21/11 7:41 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*BanditORR 6/9/11 1:32 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*RC Master 6/9/11 5:27 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*scarab 6/9/11 6:25 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*FoolsRun 6/9/11 7:27 a.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*scarab 6/9/11 8:52 a.m.
                             Urrr, now I'm conflicted.scarab 6/9/11 9:14 a.m.
                                   Re: Urrr, now I'm conflicted.Archilen 6/9/11 9:29 a.m.
                                   Re: Urrr, now I'm conflicted.General Vagueness 6/9/11 1:13 p.m.
                                         Landscape crimescarab 6/10/11 4:47 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/10/11 3:21 a.m.
           Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 7:54 a.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEAmunky-058 6/11/11 10:21 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 11:41 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEApadraig08 6/11/11 12:34 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACaptain Spark 6/11/11 10:24 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 12:23 p.m.
                             Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACaptain Spark 6/11/11 2:16 p.m.
                                   Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 3:35 p.m.
                                         Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEASonofMacPhisto 6/11/11 3:45 p.m.
                                               Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 3:51 p.m.
                                                     Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEASonofMacPhisto 6/11/11 3:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACaptain Spark 6/11/11 4:11 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACody Miller 6/11/11 10:28 a.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEAKermit 6/11/11 11:58 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 1:22 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEAArteenEsben 6/11/11 12:25 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARC Master 6/21/11 7:46 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/9/11 8:13 p.m.
           They should have added online custom games atleastThe BS Police 6/9/11 8:33 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Avateur 6/9/11 8:40 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/9/11 8:53 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Decommissioner 6/9/11 9:24 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/9/11 10:51 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Decommissioner 6/10/11 9:06 a.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/10/11 6:25 p.m.
                                         Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Decommissioner 6/10/11 8:13 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The BS Police 6/9/11 11:04 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/9/11 11:11 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The BS Police 6/9/11 11:21 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/10/11 3:30 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/10/11 3:27 a.m.
                 When opposites collideCody Miller 6/10/11 11:23 a.m.
                       Re: When opposites collideNarcogen 6/13/11 12:03 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*FoolsRun 6/10/11 2:35 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/10/11 3:09 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Beckx 6/10/11 3:22 p.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Avateur 6/10/11 4:06 p.m.
                                         Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The Loot 6/10/11 5:39 p.m.
                                               Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Avateur 6/11/11 5:20 a.m.
                                                     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/13/11 5:51 p.m.
                                                           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*uberfoop 6/13/11 6:12 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The Loot 6/13/11 9:13 p.m.
                                                                       Such drastic changes are hardly "updates." *NM*uberfoop 6/13/11 11:04 p.m.
                                                                             You have an odd definition of "update" then... *NM*The Loot 6/14/11 12:40 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 12:52 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/14/11 3:22 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 3:58 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/14/11 4:47 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 2:09 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Clarificationuberfoop 6/14/11 2:47 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/15/11 2:12 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/15/11 4:16 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/15/11 4:57 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Calling Schooly!The Loot 6/15/11 10:56 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/16/11 2:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/17/11 12:47 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/17/11 3:51 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Standard uber double post.uberfoop 6/17/11 11:40 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/20/11 12:26 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...General Vagueness 6/14/11 12:09 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...The Loot 6/14/11 9:33 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 10:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...General Vagueness 6/15/11 10:25 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/16/11 12:14 a.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/10/11 6:59 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Gravemind 6/10/11 7:29 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*BanditORR 6/11/11 4:50 p.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Hawaiian Pig 6/11/11 6:28 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/13/11 12:16 a.m.
           Wait... what?snakegriffin 6/11/11 8:22 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Someone 6/11/11 7:51 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The Loot 6/11/11 8:47 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/11/11 9:34 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/11/11 9:40 p.m.
                             Re: Why i will be buying HCEA *article*mnemesis 6/11/11 11:26 p.m.
                                   Re: Why i will be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/12/11 3:33 a.m.
                                         erm, dial down the obnoxious?nomis78 6/12/11 4:48 a.m.
                             Augmented portRockslider 6/12/11 8:47 a.m.
     Profile renaming trick for creating multiple savesRockslider 6/12/11 6:32 a.m.
     So I have found one thing in its favour...RC Master 6/13/11 6:43 p.m.
     Well I may not get it now either >:(Moorpheusl9 6/15/11 7:41 a.m.
           Re: Well I may not get it now either >:(Myyke 6/15/11 7:48 a.m.
                 UpdateMoorpheusl9 6/15/11 8:50 a.m.



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