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Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...
Posted By: uberfoop <atkinso2@seattleu.edu>Date: 6/14/11 3:58 a.m.

In Response To: Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then... (Narcogen)


: If you mean the pistol, I think you mean "is a power weapon". :-)

Actually, I would say that Halo 1 tries to avoid the entire idea of "power weapon." Players shouldn't be screwed over and relegated to only fighting effectively against other unfortunate players simply because they didn't spawn near the rockets or the banshee. This is actually, I think, why Bungie often put the rockets in central locations in Halo 1 MP maps; they knew that they were directly advantageous on small maps, so they made it so that there was at least some chance that players would fight over them.

: The things that some of the multiplayer purists liked about Halo 1 is
: something that Bungie deliberately changed in the later games-- namely,
: the degree to which expressed skill allows for differentiation on the
: scoreboard. The gap between "best" and "worst" is at
: its widest in Halo 1 multiplayer, and in general, has narrowed with each
: successive variant, while maintaining many other aspects.

I'm not sure sure that those things are so separable, though. Those other aspects to Halo 1's multiplayer are important, and all work together to make it what it is, and make it different from the other games.

For a simple example, take some of the things I mentioned directly in that post. The faster movement allows for more powerful and controllable grenades to exist without being imbalanced. This in turn enables the shotgun to be the much longer-range weapon that it is without it being quite the camping nuisance that it can sometimes be in the later games.

This is one simple gameplay design/balancing circle that is completely different in the newer games, and it's very easy to see that the gameplay ramifacations of that alone are enormous.

: I do not believe, and have never believed, that
: online Halo 1 would have achieved the popularity of the later games. If I
: were wrong, I would have expected that initial changes in Halo's
: multiplayer mode would then become less pronounced, and retreat more
: towards Halo 1's design, over time, but this has not happened, either.

I dunno. At some level, I think HPC's online community momentum even in its nonideal form (poor netcode, lots of magnetism in a PC game, etc...) speaks volumes about Halo 1's gameplay's ability to carry a multiplayer community. Even if it doesn't have quite the immediate grab that the other Halos do, it seems to have insane staying power, and I can easily imagine it supporting a sizeable online community in a better-supported form.

Also, I don't think any amount of "it wouldn't become as popular" is going to deter me from continuing to argue that "I don't care, it's better." :)

//=====================

Hmm. Interestingly, I would probably be screwed more, on a k-d level, than most people here by Halo 1 multiplayer. My hand-eye coordination is meh (I was an decent athelete in high school. In swimming, cross country, and track, that is.). The reason I'm okay with that is that I know what it feels like to lose 0-15 in a Halo 1 1v1; not bad at all. A deterministic game of skill that has less involvement of luck means that dying is less frequently a frustrating "argh, I totally should have gotten that!"

Though I suppose that actually gives your side of the popularity issue support. That sort of luck-based power-weapon stuff is, I would argue, at some level, a very mild form of skinner box.


Message Index




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Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*RC Master 6/8/11 7:26 p.m.
     404 not found *NM*ZaneZavin 6/8/11 7:34 p.m.
     Fixed linkChris101b 6/8/11 7:40 p.m.
           Good news! They have what you want right here...kapowaz 6/15/11 7:15 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*katancik 6/8/11 9:06 p.m.
           The pointsnakegriffin 6/8/11 10:04 p.m.
                 Re: The pointRC Master 6/21/11 7:21 a.m.
                       Re: The pointLouis Wu 6/21/11 8:06 a.m.
                             Like me!JDQuackers 6/21/11 8:13 a.m.
                                   Re: Like me!uberfoop 6/22/11 9:04 p.m.
                             Re: The pointRC Master 6/22/11 5:52 a.m.
                       Re: The pointDEEP NNN 6/21/11 8:47 a.m.
                       Re: The pointBry 6/21/11 9:12 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*TDSpiral 6/8/11 10:07 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*kanbo 6/8/11 10:32 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*TDSpiral 6/8/11 11:00 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*snakegriffin 6/8/11 11:17 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*kanbo 6/9/11 12:05 a.m.
                                   Yeah that was awesome! Want more. *NM*scarab 6/9/11 1:21 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*katancik 6/9/11 1:24 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*RC Master 6/21/11 7:41 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*BanditORR 6/9/11 1:32 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*RC Master 6/9/11 5:27 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*scarab 6/9/11 6:25 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*FoolsRun 6/9/11 7:27 a.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*scarab 6/9/11 8:52 a.m.
                             Urrr, now I'm conflicted.scarab 6/9/11 9:14 a.m.
                                   Re: Urrr, now I'm conflicted.Archilen 6/9/11 9:29 a.m.
                                   Re: Urrr, now I'm conflicted.General Vagueness 6/9/11 1:13 p.m.
                                         Landscape crimescarab 6/10/11 4:47 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/10/11 3:21 a.m.
           Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 7:54 a.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEAmunky-058 6/11/11 10:21 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 11:41 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEApadraig08 6/11/11 12:34 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACaptain Spark 6/11/11 10:24 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 12:23 p.m.
                             Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACaptain Spark 6/11/11 2:16 p.m.
                                   Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 3:35 p.m.
                                         Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEASonofMacPhisto 6/11/11 3:45 p.m.
                                               Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 3:51 p.m.
                                                     Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEASonofMacPhisto 6/11/11 3:53 p.m.
                                         Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACaptain Spark 6/11/11 4:11 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEACody Miller 6/11/11 10:28 a.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEAKermit 6/11/11 11:58 a.m.
                       Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARockslider 6/11/11 1:22 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEAArteenEsben 6/11/11 12:25 p.m.
                 Re: Extra campaign features I'd like in CEARC Master 6/21/11 7:46 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/9/11 8:13 p.m.
           They should have added online custom games atleastThe BS Police 6/9/11 8:33 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Avateur 6/9/11 8:40 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/9/11 8:53 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Decommissioner 6/9/11 9:24 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/9/11 10:51 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Decommissioner 6/10/11 9:06 a.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/10/11 6:25 p.m.
                                         Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Decommissioner 6/10/11 8:13 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The BS Police 6/9/11 11:04 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/9/11 11:11 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The BS Police 6/9/11 11:21 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/10/11 3:30 a.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/10/11 3:27 a.m.
                 When opposites collideCody Miller 6/10/11 11:23 a.m.
                       Re: When opposites collideNarcogen 6/13/11 12:03 a.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*FoolsRun 6/10/11 2:35 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/10/11 3:09 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Beckx 6/10/11 3:22 p.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Avateur 6/10/11 4:06 p.m.
                                         Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The Loot 6/10/11 5:39 p.m.
                                               Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Avateur 6/11/11 5:20 a.m.
                                                     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/13/11 5:51 p.m.
                                                           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*uberfoop 6/13/11 6:12 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The Loot 6/13/11 9:13 p.m.
                                                                       Such drastic changes are hardly "updates." *NM*uberfoop 6/13/11 11:04 p.m.
                                                                             You have an odd definition of "update" then... *NM*The Loot 6/14/11 12:40 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 12:52 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/14/11 3:22 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 3:58 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/14/11 4:47 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 2:09 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Clarificationuberfoop 6/14/11 2:47 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/15/11 2:12 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/15/11 4:16 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/15/11 4:57 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Calling Schooly!The Loot 6/15/11 10:56 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/16/11 2:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/17/11 12:47 a.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/17/11 3:51 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Standard uber double post.uberfoop 6/17/11 11:40 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...Narcogen 6/20/11 12:26 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...General Vagueness 6/14/11 12:09 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...The Loot 6/14/11 9:33 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/14/11 10:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...General Vagueness 6/15/11 10:25 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: You have an odd definition of "update" then...uberfoop 6/16/11 12:14 a.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/10/11 6:59 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Gravemind 6/10/11 7:29 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*BanditORR 6/11/11 4:50 p.m.
                                   Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Hawaiian Pig 6/11/11 6:28 p.m.
                             Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Narcogen 6/13/11 12:16 a.m.
           Wait... what?snakegriffin 6/11/11 8:22 a.m.
     Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Someone 6/11/11 7:51 p.m.
           Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*The Loot 6/11/11 8:47 p.m.
                 Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/11/11 9:34 p.m.
                       Re: Why i wont be buying HCEA *article*General Vagueness 6/11/11 9:40 p.m.
                             Re: Why i will be buying HCEA *article*mnemesis 6/11/11 11:26 p.m.
                                   Re: Why i will be buying HCEA *article*Cody Miller 6/12/11 3:33 a.m.
                                         erm, dial down the obnoxious?nomis78 6/12/11 4:48 a.m.
                             Augmented portRockslider 6/12/11 8:47 a.m.
     Profile renaming trick for creating multiple savesRockslider 6/12/11 6:32 a.m.
     So I have found one thing in its favour...RC Master 6/13/11 6:43 p.m.
     Well I may not get it now either >:(Moorpheusl9 6/15/11 7:41 a.m.
           Re: Well I may not get it now either >:(Myyke 6/15/11 7:48 a.m.
                 UpdateMoorpheusl9 6/15/11 8:50 a.m.



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