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Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttal
Posted By: Kermit <kermi7@mac.com>Date: 2/17/11 11:50 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttal (General Battuta)


: Complex writing often relies on knowledge of the character's psychology,
: which we have (as implied by the situation and his delivery and bearing.)
: Intentional ambiguity is a good literary technique, especially when the
: reader's knowledge of the character allows them to assign meaning to the
: ambiguity in more than one meaningful way - as we have hear.

: Saying that a line is bad because it requires the viewer to think about the
: character's ambiguous feelings at the end of a trilogy-long narrative
: strikes me as missing the point. What if the line were meant to force the
: reader to ask 'what did the Arbiter mean by that'? For many of us, it has
: apparently succeeded.

: Even if I were to take this as absolute truth - and I believe the phrase can
: be used other ways - are we to apply language solely as it was 'meant' to
: be applied? That would undercut much of the writer's art.

: I've never had a problem with this line. I don't think it's brilliant, but I
: think it's one of the better parts of the Halo 3 script. I don't
: necessarily think your wrong - reactions to writing will always differ -
: but I don't think you have any grounds to assert that there is some
: universally applicable flaw here.

Absolutely agree with you about ambiguity. The essence of literature is ambiguity. And of course writing relies on a knowledge of the character's psychology--that's part of my point. I'm not convinced the writers were sure what was in the Arbiter's head--the line is more problematic than evocative. I believe the first instance is clumsy at best, the last instance is bizarre.

Dialogue needs to flow naturally. That's one of the things in fiction that must be truer than true. In other words, to record exactly what people actually say to each other would be tedious in fiction, and fictional needs to be distilled so that it has meaning and significance and still sound like natural speech. The line isn't said in the natural context where it would be said based on how the idiom is commonly used. That's what makes it bad. It's too odd and takes me out of imagining what characters are thinking.

Message Index



Replies:

'Were it so easy.'SonofMacPhisto 2/16/11 11:33 p.m.
     Halo 3's Storytelling...uberfoop 2/17/11 12:03 a.m.
           Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Hawaiian Pig 2/17/11 12:09 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...GrimBrother One 2/17/11 12:19 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Narcogen 2/17/11 12:30 a.m.
                       Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Hawaiian Pig 2/17/11 12:53 a.m.
                             Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...thebruce0 2/17/11 9:22 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Flynn J Taggart 2/17/11 1:49 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 1:59 a.m.
                       Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Hawaiian Pig 2/17/11 2:20 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Kaidon 047 2/17/11 6:57 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...ManKitten 2/17/11 9:29 a.m.
           Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 1:54 a.m.
           Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...The BS Police 2/17/11 2:43 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Avateur 2/17/11 6:33 a.m.
           Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Jillybean 2/17/11 10:49 a.m.
                 Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Narcogen 2/17/11 10:34 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 3's Storytelling...Jillybean 2/18/11 10:57 a.m.
           Upon further consideration.uberfoop 2/17/11 3:25 p.m.
                 Re: Upon further consideration.Hawaiian Pig 2/17/11 4:10 p.m.
                 Re: Upon further consideration.Metalingus627 2/17/11 5:29 p.m.
                       Re: Upon further consideration.Narcogen 2/17/11 10:32 p.m.
                             Re: Upon further consideration.Flynn J Taggart 2/18/11 12:28 a.m.
     It's a beautiful cutscene.padraig08 2/17/11 12:05 a.m.
           Re: It's a beautiful cutscene.uberfoop 2/17/11 12:21 a.m.
           Re: It's a beautiful cutscene.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 2/17/11 6:42 a.m.
     The cutscene that does it for me is...GrimBrother One 2/17/11 12:25 a.m.
           Re: The cutscene that does it for me is...Jaydee 2/17/11 12:38 a.m.
           Re: The cutscene that does it for me is...SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 1:49 a.m.
           Re: The cutscene that does it for me is...Leviathan 2/17/11 2:42 a.m.
                 Re: The cutscene that does it for me is...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 2/17/11 6:45 a.m.
           completely agree, one of my favorites for sure *NM*T07WRX5 2/17/11 2:19 p.m.
           Re: The cutscene that does it for me is...Narcogen 2/17/11 10:28 p.m.
           This^ *NM*Kermit 2/17/11 11:15 p.m.
     Re: 'Were it so easy.'Jaydee 2/17/11 12:28 a.m.
           Re: 'Were it so easy.'SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 2:06 a.m.
                 Re: 'Were it so easy.'Leviathan 2/17/11 2:08 a.m.
                       Re: 'Were it so easy.'SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 2:11 a.m.
                             Re: 'Were it so easy.'Leviathan 2/17/11 2:18 a.m.
                                   Re: 'Were it so easy.'SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 2:20 a.m.
                                         Re: 'Were it so easy.'Leviathan 2/17/11 2:36 a.m.
     Worst line of the series, period.Kermit 2/17/11 5:49 a.m.
           Re: Worst line of the series, period.Azo 'Galvat 2/17/11 7:47 a.m.
                 Re: Worst line of the series, period.General Battuta 2/17/11 8:28 a.m.
                       Same. *NM*Beckx 2/17/11 9:35 a.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.kanbo 2/17/11 10:03 a.m.
                 Re: Worst line of the series, period.Kermit 2/17/11 10:10 a.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.Beckx 2/17/11 10:14 a.m.
                             Their, there, they're, thar. *NM*Beckx 2/17/11 10:15 a.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Kermit 2/17/11 10:20 a.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.Beckx 2/17/11 10:23 a.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.Schooly D 2/17/11 10:26 a.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.General Battuta 2/17/11 10:29 a.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.ManKitten 2/17/11 10:32 a.m.
                                         Nicely phoneticized *NM*thebruce0 2/17/11 10:44 a.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 1:30 p.m.
                                         Re: Worst line of the series, period.Avateur 2/17/11 2:10 p.m.
                                               Re: Worst line of the series, period.Beckx 2/17/11 4:12 p.m.
                                                     Re: Worst line of the series, period.Avateur 2/17/11 6:22 p.m.
                                                           Re: Worst line of the series, period.Leisandir 2/18/11 10:39 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Worst line of the series, period.Avateur 2/18/11 11:09 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Worst line of the series, period.General Battuta 2/18/11 11:58 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Worst line of the series, period.uberfoop 2/19/11 12:12 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.Leisandir 2/19/11 1:06 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Hawaiian Pig 2/19/11 1:11 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.Leisandir 2/19/11 11:06 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Worst line of the series, period.Avateur 2/19/11 2:24 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Worst line of the series, period.Leisandir 2/19/11 2:42 p.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Worst line of the series, period.uberfoop 2/19/11 3:16 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Worst line of the series, period.General Battuta 2/19/11 4:32 p.m.
                                                                                                           Re: Worst line of the series, period.SonofMacPhisto 2/19/11 4:49 p.m.
                                                                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.uberfoop 2/19/11 2:53 a.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Beckx 2/17/11 10:33 a.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.NsU Soldier 2/17/11 11:47 a.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Azo 'Galvat 2/17/11 10:43 a.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Narcogen 2/17/11 10:27 p.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 2/17/11 10:32 a.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.thebruce0 2/17/11 10:53 a.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 2/17/11 11:10 a.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.JDQuackers 2/17/11 1:11 p.m.
                                         Re: Worst line of the series, period.thebruce0 2/17/11 1:55 p.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Hawaiian Pig 2/17/11 3:49 p.m.
                                   Re: Worst line of the series, period.Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 2/17/11 7:16 p.m.
                                         Re: Worst line of the series, period.DEEP NNN 2/17/11 7:51 p.m.
                                         Re: Worst line of the series, period.thebruce0 2/17/11 10:33 p.m.
                             Re: Worst line of the series, period.Narcogen 2/17/11 10:33 p.m.
                       Here is my brilliant analysisGeneral Battuta 2/17/11 10:35 a.m.
                             My Thoughts Exactly *NM*Bones153 2/17/11 10:43 a.m.
                             Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalKermit 2/17/11 10:53 a.m.
                                   Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalGeneral Battuta 2/17/11 10:59 a.m.
                                         ugh pardon typoes *NM*General Battuta 2/17/11 10:59 a.m.
                                         Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalKermit 2/17/11 11:50 a.m.
                                               Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalGeneral Battuta 2/17/11 11:55 a.m.
                                                     Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalKermit 2/17/11 11:59 a.m.
                                                     I think someone's too smart for their own good.The Loot 2/17/11 2:44 p.m.
                                                           Re: I think someone's too smart for their own goodKermit 2/17/11 4:31 p.m.
                                   Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttal343winks. 2/17/11 7:36 p.m.
                                         Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalKermit 2/17/11 11:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalGeneral Battuta 2/18/11 12:22 a.m.
                                                     Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalKermit 2/18/11 1:22 a.m.
                                                           Re: Here is my brilliant rebuttalGeneral Battuta 2/18/11 8:29 a.m.
                                                     ^This *NM*SonofMacPhisto 2/18/11 3:17 p.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 2/17/11 10:46 a.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.Azo 'Galvat 2/17/11 11:07 a.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.ZackDark 2/17/11 5:16 p.m.
                       Re: Worst line of the series, period.343winks. 2/17/11 7:11 p.m.
           "To War" would like to have a word with you. *NM*Bones153 2/17/11 8:01 a.m.
                 Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Moorpheusl9 2/17/11 8:17 a.m.
                       Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Archilen 2/17/11 8:48 a.m.
                             Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Bry 2/17/11 9:35 a.m.
                                   Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 10:19 a.m.
                                         Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Leviathan 2/17/11 10:46 a.m.
                                               Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Azo 'Galvat 2/17/11 11:09 a.m.
                                               Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Quirel 2/17/11 11:22 a.m.
                                                     Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.thebruce0 2/17/11 11:29 a.m.
                                               Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Metalingus627 2/17/11 1:51 p.m.
                                         Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Bry 2/17/11 10:48 a.m.
                                         Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.NsU Soldier 2/17/11 12:03 p.m.
                                               Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Archilen 2/17/11 12:05 p.m.
                                                     Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Bry 2/17/11 12:20 p.m.
                                                           Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.NsU Soldier 2/17/11 12:41 p.m.
                                               Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Azo 'Galvat 2/17/11 1:01 p.m.
                                                     Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.Moorpheusl9 2/17/11 1:26 p.m.
                                                           Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 1:43 p.m.
                                                                 Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.scarab 2/17/11 1:47 p.m.
                                                                       Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.General Battuta 2/17/11 2:28 p.m.
                                                                             Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 2:36 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.General Battuta 2/17/11 3:14 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: "To War" would like to have a word with you.SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 3:18 p.m.
                                                                                         In a way, yes7he grunt w/a plasma pistol 2/17/11 3:37 p.m.
                                         Miranda wasn't thinking at all!The BS Police 2/17/11 1:43 p.m.
                                               Women drivers....bluerunner 2/17/11 1:54 p.m.
                                               Re: Miranda wasn't thinking at all!Bry 2/17/11 2:22 p.m.
                                               I'll tell you what doesn't make senseGeneral Battuta 2/17/11 2:30 p.m.
                                                     And man, poor Johnson!General Battuta 2/17/11 2:34 p.m.
                                                           I came back to life for this?! *NM*Moorpheusl9 2/17/11 2:37 p.m.
                                                           He's not dead but don't ask... *NM*scarab 2/17/11 2:42 p.m.
                                                                 I can't divulge classified information...Quirel 2/17/11 5:35 p.m.
                                                                       Re: I can't divulge classified information...scarab 2/17/11 7:01 p.m.
                                                                             Awesome AnalysisSparkypinball 2/18/11 3:35 a.m.
                                                                                   Oh thank you :-)scarab 2/18/11 4:47 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Oh thank you :-)topleybird 2/18/11 8:58 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Oh thank you :-)scarab 2/18/11 11:16 a.m.
                                               Re: Miranda wasn't thinking at all!343winks. 2/17/11 7:45 p.m.
                                                     Re: Miranda wasn't thinking at all!The BS Police 2/17/11 7:47 p.m.
                                                     Re: Miranda wasn't thinking at all!NsU Soldier 2/17/11 9:31 p.m.
                                                           Re: Miranda wasn't thinking at all!SonofMacPhisto 2/17/11 11:08 p.m.
           Re: BEST line of the series, probably.Narcogen 2/17/11 10:23 p.m.
                 Boy, this is fun!Kermit 2/17/11 11:13 p.m.
                       er, backwards^ *NM*Kermit 2/17/11 11:18 p.m.
                             Fun, this is boy? *NM*Narcogen 2/18/11 12:47 a.m.
                                   Ok but...MartytheElder 2/18/11 12:52 a.m.
                                         Re: Ok but...The Loot 2/18/11 12:56 a.m.
                                         Re: Ok but...Kermit 2/18/11 1:16 a.m.
                                               Re: Ok but...Joe Duplessie (SNIPE 316) 2/18/11 8:46 a.m.
                                               Re: Ok but...SonofMacPhisto 2/18/11 3:21 p.m.
                                                     Re: Ok but...Kermit 2/18/11 4:31 p.m.
                                         Re: Ok but...Narcogen 2/18/11 1:52 a.m.
                                         E Dorian?!Hyokin 2/18/11 9:26 a.m.
                                               Re: E Dorian?!Kermit 2/18/11 4:38 p.m.
                                         Re: Ok but...SonofMacPhisto 2/18/11 3:13 p.m.
                                         Re: Ok but...Hawaiian Pig 2/18/11 4:25 p.m.



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