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Re: Speak for yourself
Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net>Date: 9/23/10 11:44 p.m.

In Response To: Speak for yourself (Jillybean)


: That's a poor choice. Either you want these characters to go through
: something - and for me Six certainly goes through something. She goes from
: being a test pilot, a lone wolf, to someone who grieves for each of her
: team mates in turn. - Or you want these characters to be immobile,
: unevolving . . . what? Why would you ever want to tell that story?

Because you're contractually obligated?

I think probably they did want Six to evolve, but there simply wasn't time and space to get five other characters to not only be established, but also to change. The Master Chief doesn't change. His story is not about an internal conflict or character development. His story is about externalities. Most of what Noble go through are externalities. The rest of Noble is an externality to Six at the start. I think the intent was to internalize those roles through the game. It's a point of argument how well Bungie succeeded with that

: Pretty much all of Six's development is implied for me. Like you say, it's
: the player [me] reaction to events. And the Covenant become scary again in
: the same way that the Arbiter, and my reactions to playing him, became
: sympathetic. My Six and my Arbiter are undoubtedly different from yours,
: but that's the medium of a game.

Absolutely. Well, it's this game-- possibly your Master Chief is "different" in your mind than in mine (your Cortana certainly is) but that's an internal difference, that's now also become an externality, as each player has visual customizations that now display in cutscenes as well as gameplay.

: I contest, however, the idea that 5-6 hours is not enough time to develop
: eight characters. Emile gets plenty of development, especially in his
: final mission with Six, and he's not unlikeable in any sense of the word.
: I'm surprised to see that opinion in the fandom, but hey-ho.

The skull thing is pretentious, I think that's part of it.

He chastises Jorge for being too sensitive, and that seems to be why lots of people like him, so it probably puts the two characters on a continuum where people dislike Emile *because* they like Jorge, and because one of the few interactions we see is Emile's reaction to Jorge in that scene. It's also very early, and Emile doesn't get much to do after that until the end.

You can say he redeems himself with an awesome death, though.

Anger, Sadness and Envy Episode 20: Reach Spoilers



Message Index




Replies:

Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/17/10 5:25 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*BanditORR 9/17/10 7:16 p.m.
           One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/17/10 10:51 p.m.
                 Re: One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/17/10 11:05 p.m.
                       If it makes you feel better...Funkmon 9/17/10 11:27 p.m.
                             Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 12:02 a.m.
                                   Re: If it makes you feel better...kapowaz 9/18/10 5:55 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 5:59 p.m.
                                               Re: If it makes you feel better...Narcogen 9/23/10 6:17 a.m.
                                                     Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 3:40 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Ze Moose 9/19/10 2:28 a.m.
                                   Re: If it makes you feel better...Jinno 9/18/10 10:32 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 12:05 a.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Cody Miller 9/20/10 12:41 a.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...General Vagueness 9/20/10 6:29 p.m.
                                               Re: If it makes you feel better...Louis Wu 9/20/10 6:44 p.m.
                                                     Re: If it makes you feel better...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 6:47 p.m.
                                                           Re: If it makes you feel better...Louis Wu 9/20/10 6:57 p.m.
                                                                 Re: If it makes you feel better...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Narcogen 9/23/10 6:27 a.m.
                                               Reversed development priorities indeed.RyanTheHeretic 9/23/10 7:59 a.m.
                                                     Re: Reversed development priorities indeed.Narcogen 9/23/10 11:25 p.m.
                 Re: One More ThingAvateur 9/18/10 1:24 a.m.
                       Re: One More Thingthebruce0 9/19/10 11:44 p.m.
                             Re: One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/20/10 12:30 a.m.
                                   Re: One More Thingthebruce0 9/20/10 9:01 a.m.
                 The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*PhysshBone 9/18/10 9:45 p.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/18/10 10:51 p.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Ze Moose 9/19/10 2:49 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/18/10 6:04 a.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Quirel 9/18/10 12:31 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 3:43 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/18/10 5:00 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/18/10 8:21 a.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*stabbim 9/18/10 10:02 a.m.
     A for effort?Jillybean 9/18/10 9:57 a.m.
           Re: A for effort? SPOILERSCody Miller 9/18/10 11:46 a.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSretinence 9/18/10 12:28 p.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSJillybean 9/18/10 12:38 p.m.
                       To both retinence and JillybeanDHalo 9/18/10 1:11 p.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 5:17 p.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 5:55 p.m.
                                         Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 6:24 p.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 6:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 7:02 p.m.
                                                           Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 7:18 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 4:16 a.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/18/10 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 4:21 a.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/19/10 6:51 a.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:02 a.m.
                                                     Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 2:15 p.m.
                                                           Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 2:53 p.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and JillybeanArithmomaniac 9/18/10 10:04 p.m.
                             The datapads are wrong. *SP*Jordan117 9/18/10 11:02 p.m.
                                   Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*scarab 9/19/10 4:28 a.m.
                                         Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*Jordan117 9/19/10 3:05 p.m.
                                   Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*DHalo 9/23/10 11:34 a.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and JillybeanNarcogen 9/23/10 6:33 a.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanDHalo 9/23/10 11:33 a.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHikaru-119 9/28/10 4:17 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHawaiian Pig 9/28/10 5:37 p.m.
                             Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHikaru-119 9/28/10 5:45 p.m.
                                   Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHawaiian Pig 9/28/10 5:49 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort? SPOILERSGeneral Battuta 9/28/10 6:23 p.m.
                             I think you all are mistaken...DHalo 9/28/10 6:29 p.m.
                                   Re: I think you all are mistaken...Trey 9/28/10 8:17 p.m.
           Re: A for effort?Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 3:59 p.m.
                 Re: A for effort?Jillybean 9/18/10 5:19 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort?Ze Moose 9/19/10 3:23 a.m.
     Great Stuff!YNation913 9/18/10 10:32 a.m.
     Iread everythingSPU7N1K 9/18/10 12:20 p.m.
           Re: Iread everythingQuirel 9/18/10 12:23 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*sharpsniper99 9/18/10 12:54 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Review3Suns 9/18/10 1:20 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's ReviewDHalo 9/18/10 2:23 p.m.
                 *SP*Louis Wu 9/18/10 4:32 p.m.
                       True. *NM*DHalo 9/18/10 7:40 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Reviewuberfoop 9/18/10 2:45 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Review3Suns 9/19/10 5:18 a.m.
     Re: Emotionally lackingCrab 9/18/10 4:09 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*dizzy 9/18/10 4:28 p.m.
           Re: Halo 4...hotshot revan 9/18/10 5:09 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 4...dizzy 9/18/10 6:04 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...tombodemon 9/18/10 7:39 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Devil Mingy 9/18/10 7:45 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Arithmomaniac 9/18/10 10:14 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Quirel 9/18/10 10:15 p.m.
                             Re: Halo 4...dizzy 9/19/10 8:10 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*uberfoop 9/18/10 4:48 p.m.
     If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Train Dodger 9/19/10 3:41 a.m.
           This. Very much this. *NM*Riceatron 9/19/10 4:40 a.m.
           Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:03 a.m.
                 Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Bry 9/19/10 5:18 p.m.
                       Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:34 p.m.
           Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Cody Miller 9/20/10 12:54 a.m.
                 Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Train Dodger 9/20/10 5:39 a.m.
                       Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Cody Miller 9/20/10 10:09 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DenimDan312 9/19/10 4:34 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:01 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/19/10 7:05 p.m.
                       I give this post two thumbs up. *NM*Louis Wu 9/19/10 7:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 7:45 p.m.
                             Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 7:46 p.m.
                             Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Bry 9/19/10 7:54 p.m.
                                   Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 8:01 p.m.
                                         Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Bry 9/19/10 8:15 p.m.
                                               Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*SonofMacPhisto 9/19/10 8:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*kapowaz 9/28/10 1:52 p.m.
                                         Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Wayward Spleen™ 9/28/10 2:08 p.m.
                                               What I think.Mantis7 9/28/10 2:47 p.m.
                                                     Re: What I think.gspawn 9/28/10 3:17 p.m.
                                                           Re: Note: dialogue snippet guaranteed incorrect *NM*gspawn 9/28/10 3:18 p.m.
                                               Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*kapowaz 9/29/10 2:26 a.m.
                             Arbiter character development *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 6:56 a.m.
                                   Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:05 p.m.
                                         To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Lobster 9/29/10 1:42 a.m.
                                               Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/29/10 2:31 a.m.
                                                     Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader...Spec ops Grunt 9/29/10 3:11 a.m.
                                                           Re: Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader.Lobster 9/29/10 3:21 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader.Leviathan 9/29/10 3:56 a.m.
                                                     Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Louis Wu 9/29/10 8:19 a.m.
                                                           Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*kanbo 9/29/10 1:18 p.m.
                                                           Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*7he_7ruth 9/29/10 1:46 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Bry 9/29/10 2:57 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*scarab 9/29/10 3:00 p.m.
                                                                       Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/29/10 3:19 p.m.
                                                                       Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/29/10 11:06 p.m.
                       ^I really agree with Scarab *NM*Lobster 9/20/10 1:31 a.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 6:39 a.m.
     Finally Reached *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 5:46 a.m.
           Re: Finally Reached *SP*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/23/10 9:32 a.m.
                 Re: Finally Reached *SP*General Battuta 9/23/10 10:18 a.m.
                       Re: Finally Reached *SP*General Battuta 9/23/10 10:23 a.m.
                       Re: Finally Reached *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:24 p.m.
                 Re: Finally Reached *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 11:32 p.m.
           Speak for yourselfJillybean 9/23/10 11:29 a.m.
                 Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 1:32 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Riceatron 9/23/10 1:36 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 1:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Narcogen 9/23/10 11:47 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/24/10 12:21 a.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 1:38 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)scarab 9/24/10 9:15 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/24/10 9:41 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Kermit 9/23/10 2:05 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 2:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 2:38 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 2:58 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Wayward Spleen™ 9/23/10 3:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Kermit 9/23/10 3:37 p.m.
                                                     but...Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:28 p.m.
                                                           Re: but...Kermit 9/23/10 4:53 p.m.
                                                                 Re: but...thebruce0 9/24/10 8:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: but...Narcogen 9/23/10 11:51 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 4:22 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Jillybean 9/23/10 4:46 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Narcogen 9/23/10 11:53 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Jillybean 9/24/10 6:11 a.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)thebruce0 9/24/10 8:53 a.m.
                 Re: Speak for yourselfNarcogen 9/23/10 11:44 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourselfHawaiian Pig 9/24/10 7:59 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*7he_7ruth 9/28/10 10:28 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DHalo 9/28/10 10:50 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*7he_7ruth 9/28/10 11:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DHalo 9/28/10 11:46 p.m.



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