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Arbiter character development *SP*
Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net>Date: 9/23/10 6:56 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP* (Hawaiian Pig)

: These characters are flat. No two ways about it.

: Your description of Kat, for example, is reading into something that isn't
: there.

Really? He and I must be reading in the same things, then, because I also saw them.

: All this from some technobable, and a commanding officer asking how much time
: will it take to get an uplink set up to command? I don't buy it.

Are you saying that in an exchange between any two arbitrary characters, where one is asking for a job to be done and the other is doing the job, it's impossible to reveal character except through the use of adjectives?

Spartans are stoic and pragmatic, which I suppose might be boring, but then again, perfect people are, and that's what Spartans are: perfect soldiers. They are overcome by numbers and circumstance, but not by personal flaws because they don't really have any-- they can't have any.

: She is the Tech Genius trope by definition. How many times does the tech guy
: chastise people for not appreciating or underestimating his/her work.

: "I'd like to see you open up a 28000 bit modulating encryption
: key."

: Technobabble has its place, but when your entire character does nothing but
: spew this stuff, you may as well be... well ...

: Come on now... where do you get the sense that "Jun is comfortable in
: his skin." Or that Emile's hardly-touched-upon confrontations with
: Jorge are a result of his fear of sentimentality. None of this is rooted
: in the events of the game.

: There certainly is time for character development in the "span of a
: week."

Not when one of your cutscenes basically flashes "five days later" on the screen (figuratively).

: I'm not sure how you can say: "I always complained that we never really
: saw into his mind or knew his opinion of events. "

: We do see the Arbiter change as a character, and get a sense of whats going
: on in his head. It's readily apparent when we see him go from willing to
: serve the Prophet's every whim, to stabbing Truth in an act of unbridled
: vengeance.

: From

: Arbiter : What would you have your Arbiter do?

: To

: Arbiter : I will have my revenge. On a Prophet, not a plague!

: Prophet of Truth : My feet tread the path. I shall become a god!

: Gravemind (Speaking through Truth) : You will be food - nothing more.

: Prophet of Truth : I...am...Truth! The voice of the Covenant!

: Arbiter : And so, you must be silenced.

: You can't tell me we didn't watch him change. That we didn't get a sense of
: his disillusionment with The Covenant, the Great Journey, or his sense of
: pride in his people. It unfolded as the events of the story unfolded. As I
: said: "Character development is most often a direct result of the
: trials and tribulations that occur in light of the events of a
: story."

Hmm. I think you may be reading into that as much as we're reading into Kat.

It is interesting to note that the Arbiter is actually never shown as repudiating his religion. In fact, the only actual repudiation of it we get from Half-Jaw at the end of the game.

There's precious little introspection from the Arbiter, and we get very little insight into what he thinks and feels about what has gone on: the revelation of the rings, how they work, the alliance with humans, and the betrayal by the Prophets.

What we do get, is that after being sentenced to death for heresy (his failure to save 04) he is offered a second chance and earnestly accepts it, which means turning on his own kind. Even in the face of evidence that all is not as it seems, he executes the Heretic Leader (although the target's convenient and inexplicable implacability helps there). He objects to the rough treatment of the Oracle, but not overmuch.

Then, after completing his first mission on Delta, he gets betrayed and seeks revenge. This isn't really much of a character development, even though it is understandable. There's no explicit link between his betrayal and the destruction of his underlying faith; in fact, if there was, it'd work against him. It'd be hard to accept his change in faith if the only reason he was doing it was because the Prophets betrayed him, instead of the important reason: which is that his truth is based on a lie. There's no explicit connection between this lie, and his betrayal. His betrayal is connected to backroom politics that put the Brutes into the favored place of the Elites right at a critical juncture where civil conflict would do the most damage. It's a sign of dreadful management.

Seen through the lens of the Arbiter wanting revenge first and foremost, his character is actually a lot less interesting, because he means he doesn't have to change. If killing Truth and helping the humans gets back at those who hurt him, he'll do it-- whether the rings do or don't kill all life are missing the point.

: And I don't buy this defense of the characters for a minute. It's really
: apologetic and reads into non-existent assumptions.

I think you may be doing a bit of that yourself on behalf of the Arbiter, while you don't accept it on behalf of Kat or Jorge. It may mean nothing more than to say that the former appeals to you in a way the latter don't.

Writers use caricatures because they are shortcuts; because they know that it helps the audience fill in the gaps. We're supposed to see things that aren't actually all there on the screen because there is neither time nor space to display them all. You draw a rough sketch and the audience fills in the rest with traits from other, similar characters.

Anger, Sadness and Envy Episode 20: Reach Spoilers



Message Index




Replies:

Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/17/10 5:25 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*BanditORR 9/17/10 7:16 p.m.
           One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/17/10 10:51 p.m.
                 Re: One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/17/10 11:05 p.m.
                       If it makes you feel better...Funkmon 9/17/10 11:27 p.m.
                             Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 12:02 a.m.
                                   Re: If it makes you feel better...kapowaz 9/18/10 5:55 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 5:59 p.m.
                                               Re: If it makes you feel better...Narcogen 9/23/10 6:17 a.m.
                                                     Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 3:40 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Ze Moose 9/19/10 2:28 a.m.
                                   Re: If it makes you feel better...Jinno 9/18/10 10:32 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 12:05 a.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Cody Miller 9/20/10 12:41 a.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...General Vagueness 9/20/10 6:29 p.m.
                                               Re: If it makes you feel better...Louis Wu 9/20/10 6:44 p.m.
                                                     Re: If it makes you feel better...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 6:47 p.m.
                                                           Re: If it makes you feel better...Louis Wu 9/20/10 6:57 p.m.
                                                                 Re: If it makes you feel better...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Narcogen 9/23/10 6:27 a.m.
                                               Reversed development priorities indeed.RyanTheHeretic 9/23/10 7:59 a.m.
                                                     Re: Reversed development priorities indeed.Narcogen 9/23/10 11:25 p.m.
                 Re: One More ThingAvateur 9/18/10 1:24 a.m.
                       Re: One More Thingthebruce0 9/19/10 11:44 p.m.
                             Re: One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/20/10 12:30 a.m.
                                   Re: One More Thingthebruce0 9/20/10 9:01 a.m.
                 The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*PhysshBone 9/18/10 9:45 p.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/18/10 10:51 p.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Ze Moose 9/19/10 2:49 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/18/10 6:04 a.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Quirel 9/18/10 12:31 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 3:43 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/18/10 5:00 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/18/10 8:21 a.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*stabbim 9/18/10 10:02 a.m.
     A for effort?Jillybean 9/18/10 9:57 a.m.
           Re: A for effort? SPOILERSCody Miller 9/18/10 11:46 a.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSretinence 9/18/10 12:28 p.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSJillybean 9/18/10 12:38 p.m.
                       To both retinence and JillybeanDHalo 9/18/10 1:11 p.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 5:17 p.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 5:55 p.m.
                                         Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 6:24 p.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 6:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 7:02 p.m.
                                                           Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 7:18 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 4:16 a.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/18/10 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 4:21 a.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/19/10 6:51 a.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:02 a.m.
                                                     Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 2:15 p.m.
                                                           Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 2:53 p.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and JillybeanArithmomaniac 9/18/10 10:04 p.m.
                             The datapads are wrong. *SP*Jordan117 9/18/10 11:02 p.m.
                                   Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*scarab 9/19/10 4:28 a.m.
                                         Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*Jordan117 9/19/10 3:05 p.m.
                                   Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*DHalo 9/23/10 11:34 a.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and JillybeanNarcogen 9/23/10 6:33 a.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanDHalo 9/23/10 11:33 a.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHikaru-119 9/28/10 4:17 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHawaiian Pig 9/28/10 5:37 p.m.
                             Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHikaru-119 9/28/10 5:45 p.m.
                                   Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHawaiian Pig 9/28/10 5:49 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort? SPOILERSGeneral Battuta 9/28/10 6:23 p.m.
                             I think you all are mistaken...DHalo 9/28/10 6:29 p.m.
                                   Re: I think you all are mistaken...Trey 9/28/10 8:17 p.m.
           Re: A for effort?Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 3:59 p.m.
                 Re: A for effort?Jillybean 9/18/10 5:19 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort?Ze Moose 9/19/10 3:23 a.m.
     Great Stuff!YNation913 9/18/10 10:32 a.m.
     Iread everythingSPU7N1K 9/18/10 12:20 p.m.
           Re: Iread everythingQuirel 9/18/10 12:23 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*sharpsniper99 9/18/10 12:54 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Review3Suns 9/18/10 1:20 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's ReviewDHalo 9/18/10 2:23 p.m.
                 *SP*Louis Wu 9/18/10 4:32 p.m.
                       True. *NM*DHalo 9/18/10 7:40 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Reviewuberfoop 9/18/10 2:45 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Review3Suns 9/19/10 5:18 a.m.
     Re: Emotionally lackingCrab 9/18/10 4:09 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*dizzy 9/18/10 4:28 p.m.
           Re: Halo 4...hotshot revan 9/18/10 5:09 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 4...dizzy 9/18/10 6:04 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...tombodemon 9/18/10 7:39 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Devil Mingy 9/18/10 7:45 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Arithmomaniac 9/18/10 10:14 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Quirel 9/18/10 10:15 p.m.
                             Re: Halo 4...dizzy 9/19/10 8:10 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*uberfoop 9/18/10 4:48 p.m.
     If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Train Dodger 9/19/10 3:41 a.m.
           This. Very much this. *NM*Riceatron 9/19/10 4:40 a.m.
           Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:03 a.m.
                 Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Bry 9/19/10 5:18 p.m.
                       Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:34 p.m.
           Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Cody Miller 9/20/10 12:54 a.m.
                 Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Train Dodger 9/20/10 5:39 a.m.
                       Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Cody Miller 9/20/10 10:09 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DenimDan312 9/19/10 4:34 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:01 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/19/10 7:05 p.m.
                       I give this post two thumbs up. *NM*Louis Wu 9/19/10 7:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 7:45 p.m.
                             Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 7:46 p.m.
                             Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Bry 9/19/10 7:54 p.m.
                                   Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 8:01 p.m.
                                         Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Bry 9/19/10 8:15 p.m.
                                               Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*SonofMacPhisto 9/19/10 8:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*kapowaz 9/28/10 1:52 p.m.
                                         Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Wayward Spleen™ 9/28/10 2:08 p.m.
                                               What I think.Mantis7 9/28/10 2:47 p.m.
                                                     Re: What I think.gspawn 9/28/10 3:17 p.m.
                                                           Re: Note: dialogue snippet guaranteed incorrect *NM*gspawn 9/28/10 3:18 p.m.
                                               Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*kapowaz 9/29/10 2:26 a.m.
                             Arbiter character development *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 6:56 a.m.
                                   Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:05 p.m.
                                         To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Lobster 9/29/10 1:42 a.m.
                                               Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/29/10 2:31 a.m.
                                                     Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader...Spec ops Grunt 9/29/10 3:11 a.m.
                                                           Re: Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader.Lobster 9/29/10 3:21 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader.Leviathan 9/29/10 3:56 a.m.
                                                     Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Louis Wu 9/29/10 8:19 a.m.
                                                           Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*kanbo 9/29/10 1:18 p.m.
                                                           Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*7he_7ruth 9/29/10 1:46 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Bry 9/29/10 2:57 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*scarab 9/29/10 3:00 p.m.
                                                                       Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/29/10 3:19 p.m.
                                                                       Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/29/10 11:06 p.m.
                       ^I really agree with Scarab *NM*Lobster 9/20/10 1:31 a.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 6:39 a.m.
     Finally Reached *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 5:46 a.m.
           Re: Finally Reached *SP*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/23/10 9:32 a.m.
                 Re: Finally Reached *SP*General Battuta 9/23/10 10:18 a.m.
                       Re: Finally Reached *SP*General Battuta 9/23/10 10:23 a.m.
                       Re: Finally Reached *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:24 p.m.
                 Re: Finally Reached *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 11:32 p.m.
           Speak for yourselfJillybean 9/23/10 11:29 a.m.
                 Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 1:32 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Riceatron 9/23/10 1:36 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 1:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Narcogen 9/23/10 11:47 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/24/10 12:21 a.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 1:38 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)scarab 9/24/10 9:15 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/24/10 9:41 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Kermit 9/23/10 2:05 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 2:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 2:38 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 2:58 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Wayward Spleen™ 9/23/10 3:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Kermit 9/23/10 3:37 p.m.
                                                     but...Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:28 p.m.
                                                           Re: but...Kermit 9/23/10 4:53 p.m.
                                                                 Re: but...thebruce0 9/24/10 8:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: but...Narcogen 9/23/10 11:51 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 4:22 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Jillybean 9/23/10 4:46 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Narcogen 9/23/10 11:53 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Jillybean 9/24/10 6:11 a.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)thebruce0 9/24/10 8:53 a.m.
                 Re: Speak for yourselfNarcogen 9/23/10 11:44 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourselfHawaiian Pig 9/24/10 7:59 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*7he_7ruth 9/28/10 10:28 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DHalo 9/28/10 10:50 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*7he_7ruth 9/28/10 11:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DHalo 9/28/10 11:46 p.m.



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