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Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*
Posted By: scarabDate: 9/19/10 7:05 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP* (Hawaiian Pig)


: This was exactly my problem. She's flat and boring.

I liked her. Most of the time she was doing her job, her job is technical, nobody else on the team really wants to know what she is doing but her boss wants her to do it quick.

: Give me some emotional and psychological development. The Arbiter sure got
: that.

I always felt that he was a person that had shit happen to him. That's not the same as having character development. I always complained that we never really saw into his mind or knew his opinion of events.

: Hell, even some of the most cliched characters got a chance to show depth.
: Miranda and Johnson were about to kill themselves to stop Truth in Halo
: 3. That was some heavy shit.

Thanks to Marty :-) And there was the fact that Johnson was knocking her off. I knew that from their hurried excises when I came across them in that corridor in Cairo station.

: They don't experience change or any significant kind of internal, or even
: interpersonal, conflicts.

If we ignore the friction between Jorge and Emile. Or Kat and Carter and the fact that she has him completely dialed in in Jorge's words. K & C have friction but also a connection. Jun's rapport with Jorge.

: What is it that you're seeing between cutscenes? All I'm seeing is a
: reiteration of their boring and flat personas.

They aren't quirky but I see people not just cardboard cutouts. I liked Kat's small digs at Carter's technical competence, the don't touch anything comment. It was a dry dig but I think that Kat's humor is dry. Its understated but the humor is there if you know technical people and their lives. She feels the pressure when things take a long time to achieve, its annoying that Carter doesn't immediately see that radio comms wont work so, obviously, she works on getting a hardline up. He essentially tells her to get things done fast, the subtext being, 'I'm not interested in problems only in solutions'. And, in keeping with Carter's blunt tone and his demand for maximum speed and efficiency, she bluntly tells him that he is in her light when he is blocking her light and slowing her up. I liked it. :-) <- I've combined two different exchanges here.

: Yes. Kat is techy. What else?

Dry understated sense of humor. Earnest when expressing her plans and opinions. Feels the pressure of people's expectations and feels the need to justify herself. Some impatience with the less technical members of her team (well her boss actually). After that I don't know but she hasn't had 3 games worth of air time. What was Sarge in Halo? Or Keyes? Put Noble team in a couple of novels and then ask us about their characters.

You have some valid points but you would do better to concentrate on your strong points and don't try to shoehorn everything into your case. There is some good in the Reach game, its not completely devoid of merit, not by a long shot. I love the game and I like the characters. I like them as people, I sympathize with them. I don't think that you will convince me to unsee what I see in them.

I like Jorge and Kat and 6. Jun reminds me of Sulu, reliable and competent and comfortable in his own skin. Emile has probably had a difficult childhood (if the books are anything to go by). He is probably afraid of sentimentality and clings to the strengths of a Spartan. Jorge's sentimentality is a threat to Emile. Emile is not instantly likable but you can see his position. Carter? He stood up to Halsey. He's very focused on the job but he had to be. Maybe he's into ballroom dancing and building model airplanes in his spare time but we didn't get to see his spare time.

As for character development, how much development can you do in a couple of weeks? We didn't have time to see Kat reconcile herself with her distant father who actually truly loved her. We didn't have time to see Emile come to terms with his homosexuality and the tragic loss of his lover, "You Brute! He was my lover!". We didn't see Carter's youthful flirt with drug addiction, his falling into that cult, how he dragged himself out of the mire and became a stronger person and a better soldier as a result. Jun's problems with the bottle and how he has been clean for three years now. He takes each day at a time and is glad of the support and understanding that his team has given him.

But we got to see some of the different shades of a couple of the characters. I mentioned my opinion of 6 changing as the game progressed. Others have mentioned how they didn't like Kat at first but that this changed. I suspect that they saw her as cold or boastful. But then they saw her being earnest about the fate of Reach and her plan to save it and so saw a different side of her. That's probably the most you could do with a few cutscenes and some in game dialogue. Jorge got the lion's share of character time. Emile had his friction with Jorge, Carter had his with Kat. Jun was more peripheral, the solo sniper guy who gets rather chatty when he has a mate sharing an op with him. I found him personable.

The characters bored you but they didn't bore me.

Having said all of the above... I did feel a bit meh about the story. I might have posted a message somewhat like the ones that you and Cody posted. But I held off while I thought about it. I just think that you are condemning it too harshly. There is good in the story. It touches me on an emotional level.


Message Index




Replies:

Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/17/10 5:25 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*BanditORR 9/17/10 7:16 p.m.
           One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/17/10 10:51 p.m.
                 Re: One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/17/10 11:05 p.m.
                       If it makes you feel better...Funkmon 9/17/10 11:27 p.m.
                             Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 12:02 a.m.
                                   Re: If it makes you feel better...kapowaz 9/18/10 5:55 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 5:59 p.m.
                                               Re: If it makes you feel better...Narcogen 9/23/10 6:17 a.m.
                                                     Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 3:40 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Ze Moose 9/19/10 2:28 a.m.
                                   Re: If it makes you feel better...Jinno 9/18/10 10:32 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 12:05 a.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Cody Miller 9/20/10 12:41 a.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...General Vagueness 9/20/10 6:29 p.m.
                                               Re: If it makes you feel better...Louis Wu 9/20/10 6:44 p.m.
                                                     Re: If it makes you feel better...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 6:47 p.m.
                                                           Re: If it makes you feel better...Louis Wu 9/20/10 6:57 p.m.
                                                                 Re: If it makes you feel better...Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/20/10 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: If it makes you feel better...Narcogen 9/23/10 6:27 a.m.
                                               Reversed development priorities indeed.RyanTheHeretic 9/23/10 7:59 a.m.
                                                     Re: Reversed development priorities indeed.Narcogen 9/23/10 11:25 p.m.
                 Re: One More ThingAvateur 9/18/10 1:24 a.m.
                       Re: One More Thingthebruce0 9/19/10 11:44 p.m.
                             Re: One More ThingHawaiian Pig 9/20/10 12:30 a.m.
                                   Re: One More Thingthebruce0 9/20/10 9:01 a.m.
                 The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*PhysshBone 9/18/10 9:45 p.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/18/10 10:51 p.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 12:08 a.m.
                       Re: The Fall of Reach vs. Halo: Reach *SP*Ze Moose 9/19/10 2:49 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/18/10 6:04 a.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Quirel 9/18/10 12:31 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 3:43 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/18/10 5:00 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/18/10 8:21 a.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*stabbim 9/18/10 10:02 a.m.
     A for effort?Jillybean 9/18/10 9:57 a.m.
           Re: A for effort? SPOILERSCody Miller 9/18/10 11:46 a.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSretinence 9/18/10 12:28 p.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSJillybean 9/18/10 12:38 p.m.
                       To both retinence and JillybeanDHalo 9/18/10 1:11 p.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 5:17 p.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 5:55 p.m.
                                         Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 6:24 p.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 6:38 p.m.
                                                     Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/18/10 7:02 p.m.
                                                           Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/18/10 7:18 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 4:16 a.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/18/10 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 4:21 a.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanBry 9/19/10 6:51 a.m.
                                               Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 11:02 a.m.
                                                     Re: To both retinence and Jillybeanscarab 9/19/10 2:15 p.m.
                                                           Re: To both retinence and JillybeanStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/19/10 2:53 p.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and JillybeanArithmomaniac 9/18/10 10:04 p.m.
                             The datapads are wrong. *SP*Jordan117 9/18/10 11:02 p.m.
                                   Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*scarab 9/19/10 4:28 a.m.
                                         Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*Jordan117 9/19/10 3:05 p.m.
                                   Re: The datapads are wrong. *SP*DHalo 9/23/10 11:34 a.m.
                             Re: To both retinence and JillybeanNarcogen 9/23/10 6:33 a.m.
                                   Re: To both retinence and JillybeanDHalo 9/23/10 11:33 a.m.
                 Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHikaru-119 9/28/10 4:17 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHawaiian Pig 9/28/10 5:37 p.m.
                             Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHikaru-119 9/28/10 5:45 p.m.
                                   Re: A for effort? SPOILERSHawaiian Pig 9/28/10 5:49 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort? SPOILERSGeneral Battuta 9/28/10 6:23 p.m.
                             I think you all are mistaken...DHalo 9/28/10 6:29 p.m.
                                   Re: I think you all are mistaken...Trey 9/28/10 8:17 p.m.
           Re: A for effort?Hawaiian Pig 9/18/10 3:59 p.m.
                 Re: A for effort?Jillybean 9/18/10 5:19 p.m.
                       Re: A for effort?Ze Moose 9/19/10 3:23 a.m.
     Great Stuff!YNation913 9/18/10 10:32 a.m.
     Iread everythingSPU7N1K 9/18/10 12:20 p.m.
           Re: Iread everythingQuirel 9/18/10 12:23 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*sharpsniper99 9/18/10 12:54 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Review3Suns 9/18/10 1:20 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's ReviewDHalo 9/18/10 2:23 p.m.
                 *SP*Louis Wu 9/18/10 4:32 p.m.
                       True. *NM*DHalo 9/18/10 7:40 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Reviewuberfoop 9/18/10 2:45 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Review3Suns 9/19/10 5:18 a.m.
     Re: Emotionally lackingCrab 9/18/10 4:09 p.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*dizzy 9/18/10 4:28 p.m.
           Re: Halo 4...hotshot revan 9/18/10 5:09 p.m.
                 Re: Halo 4...dizzy 9/18/10 6:04 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...tombodemon 9/18/10 7:39 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Devil Mingy 9/18/10 7:45 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Arithmomaniac 9/18/10 10:14 p.m.
                       Re: Halo 4...Quirel 9/18/10 10:15 p.m.
                             Re: Halo 4...dizzy 9/19/10 8:10 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*uberfoop 9/18/10 4:48 p.m.
     If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Train Dodger 9/19/10 3:41 a.m.
           This. Very much this. *NM*Riceatron 9/19/10 4:40 a.m.
           Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:03 a.m.
                 Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Bry 9/19/10 5:18 p.m.
                       Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:34 p.m.
           Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Cody Miller 9/20/10 12:54 a.m.
                 Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Train Dodger 9/20/10 5:39 a.m.
                       Re: If Noble Six is a Mary Sue...Cody Miller 9/20/10 10:09 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DenimDan312 9/19/10 4:34 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 5:01 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*scarab 9/19/10 7:05 p.m.
                       I give this post two thumbs up. *NM*Louis Wu 9/19/10 7:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 7:45 p.m.
                             Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 7:46 p.m.
                             Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Bry 9/19/10 7:54 p.m.
                                   Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/19/10 8:01 p.m.
                                         Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Bry 9/19/10 8:15 p.m.
                                               Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*SonofMacPhisto 9/19/10 8:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*kapowaz 9/28/10 1:52 p.m.
                                         Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Wayward Spleen™ 9/28/10 2:08 p.m.
                                               What I think.Mantis7 9/28/10 2:47 p.m.
                                                     Re: What I think.gspawn 9/28/10 3:17 p.m.
                                                           Re: Note: dialogue snippet guaranteed incorrect *NM*gspawn 9/28/10 3:18 p.m.
                                               Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*kapowaz 9/29/10 2:26 a.m.
                             Arbiter character development *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 6:56 a.m.
                                   Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:05 p.m.
                                         To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Lobster 9/29/10 1:42 a.m.
                                               Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/29/10 2:31 a.m.
                                                     Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader...Spec ops Grunt 9/29/10 3:11 a.m.
                                                           Re: Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader.Lobster 9/29/10 3:21 a.m.
                                                                 Re: Anyone ever figure out why the Heretic leader.Leviathan 9/29/10 3:56 a.m.
                                                     Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Louis Wu 9/29/10 8:19 a.m.
                                                           Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*kanbo 9/29/10 1:18 p.m.
                                                           Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*7he_7ruth 9/29/10 1:46 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Bry 9/29/10 2:57 p.m.
                                                                 Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*scarab 9/29/10 3:00 p.m.
                                                                       Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Azo 'Galvat 9/29/10 3:19 p.m.
                                                                       Re: To HP Re: Arbiter character development *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/29/10 11:06 p.m.
                       ^I really agree with Scarab *NM*Lobster 9/20/10 1:31 a.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 6:39 a.m.
     Finally Reached *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 5:46 a.m.
           Re: Finally Reached *SP*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/23/10 9:32 a.m.
                 Re: Finally Reached *SP*General Battuta 9/23/10 10:18 a.m.
                       Re: Finally Reached *SP*General Battuta 9/23/10 10:23 a.m.
                       Re: Finally Reached *SP*Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:24 p.m.
                 Re: Finally Reached *SP*Narcogen 9/23/10 11:32 p.m.
           Speak for yourselfJillybean 9/23/10 11:29 a.m.
                 Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 1:32 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Riceatron 9/23/10 1:36 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 1:40 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Narcogen 9/23/10 11:47 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/24/10 12:21 a.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 1:38 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)scarab 9/24/10 9:15 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/24/10 9:41 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Kermit 9/23/10 2:05 p.m.
                             Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 2:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 2:38 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Cody Miller 9/23/10 2:58 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Wayward Spleen™ 9/23/10 3:02 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Kermit 9/23/10 3:37 p.m.
                                                     but...Hawaiian Pig 9/23/10 4:28 p.m.
                                                           Re: but...Kermit 9/23/10 4:53 p.m.
                                                                 Re: but...thebruce0 9/24/10 8:49 a.m.
                                                           Re: but...Narcogen 9/23/10 11:51 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Bry 9/23/10 4:22 p.m.
                                   Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Jillybean 9/23/10 4:46 p.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Narcogen 9/23/10 11:53 p.m.
                                               Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)Jillybean 9/24/10 6:11 a.m.
                                         Re: Speak for yourself (Spoils)thebruce0 9/24/10 8:53 a.m.
                 Re: Speak for yourselfNarcogen 9/23/10 11:44 p.m.
                       Re: Speak for yourselfHawaiian Pig 9/24/10 7:59 a.m.
     Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*7he_7ruth 9/28/10 10:28 p.m.
           Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DHalo 9/28/10 10:50 p.m.
                 Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*7he_7ruth 9/28/10 11:22 p.m.
                       Re: Hawaiian Pig's Fantabulous Story Review *SP*DHalo 9/28/10 11:46 p.m.



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