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Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!
Posted By: Cody Miller <speedruns@codymiller.org>Date: 4/18/10 7:01 p.m.

In Response To: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches! (Leviathan)


: So if I respond that games, like Braid, have fulfilled all the categories
: that Mr. Ebert says it fails in, and games can be art, then what?

Well, Braid was a bad game though. As a puzzle platformer it provided simple puzzles, albeit unique ones, and dismal platforming. So if it's one of the best examples we're in trouble.

: It's just a lot of people getting in a hoopla about what you call a thing, it
: seems. An academic argument over what the classification of the flower I'm
: holding is, with no one actually experiencing its beauty... If that sappy
: analogy makes any sense.

The only reason people get in a hoopla is that game developers feel they have to justify their creations as something more than just games. Not content with realizing that toys and games (which are what they are making) can be very important as leisure, fun, and intellectual pursuit, they want to be respected as other things such as film are. Boy does the games industry envy film!

: If I had to try and defend it...

: I think one of the main problems video games face in being validated as art
: is not that the actual artistic value isn't there, it's just the
: terminology and preconceptions associated with them, (especially in
: regards to older generations, it seems). 'Video games' is a outdated term
: now, and the breadth of things that it is used to describe is ridiculous,
: often used to lump things together that are fundamentally different from
: each other. It's a bit like 'film' can describe artistic works as well as
: commercial endeavors, but it's bit more extreme than that actually.

It's the perfect term. Video games are just games that rely on electronic and visual feedback. They are nothing more than games people.

: Braid may have structured itself like a Mario side-scroller (oh how that
: makes the story even better!) but it owes its roots more to a post-modern
: novel than any video game.

LOL. Go play Metal Gear Solid 2 for a real postmodern videogame, and one that actually has something to say.

: Ebert says he doesn't understand the need for 'gamers' to have their medium
: be validated as art, but I also don't understand why he feels the need to
: do the opposite.

I quite frankly don't understand their need either, yet I'm not going to say games aren't art.

: I'm not saying to not be critical, but instead of spending time arguing about
: such abstract classifications and definitions, lets just go make and
: experience art, and not worry about what another person calls it.

Basically yes. Stop trying to make art and just go make a good game please.


Message Index




Replies:

(F)ART OR NOT?Miguel Chavez 4/18/10 4:06 a.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?NsU Soldier 4/18/10 6:19 a.m.
     (F)ART *NM*hyokin 4/18/10 7:14 a.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?DHalo 4/18/10 9:03 a.m.
     Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Leviathan 4/18/10 12:16 p.m.
           Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Jillybean 4/18/10 3:10 p.m.
           Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Cody Miller 4/18/10 7:01 p.m.
                 BLAAAAAAAAAAAHRiceatron 4/18/10 7:30 p.m.
                       Re: BLAAAAAAAAAAAHCody Miller 4/18/10 7:47 p.m.
                             Re: BLAAAAAAAAAAAHRiceatron 4/18/10 7:51 p.m.
                 Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Leviathan 4/18/10 9:16 p.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?General Vagueness 4/18/10 1:28 p.m.
           Re: (F)ART OR NOT?General Vagueness 4/18/10 1:30 p.m.
           Re: (F)ART OR NOT?SonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 1:46 p.m.
                 Re: (F)ART OR NOT?General Vagueness 4/18/10 2:27 p.m.
                       Re: (F)ART OR NOT?SonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 3:29 p.m.
     A view from outside HBOSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 4:54 p.m.
           cut/paste failSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 4:56 p.m.
           Re: A view from those asshole Hardcore gamersHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 5:24 p.m.
                 Re: A view from those asshole Hardcore gamersSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 6:03 p.m.
                       welp, i posted a commentHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 7:45 p.m.
                             Re: welp, i posted a commentCody Miller 4/18/10 7:59 p.m.
                                   Re: welp, i posted a commentHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 8:10 p.m.
                                         Cody.Riceatron 4/18/10 8:57 p.m.
                                         Re: welp, i posted a commentCody Miller 4/18/10 9:20 p.m.
                                               JRPGs don't give up a lot of control bro *NM*Hawaiian Pig 4/18/10 9:24 p.m.
                                                     Re: JRPGs don't give up a lot of control broGeneral Vagueness 4/18/10 10:08 p.m.
                                                           Re: JRPGs don't give up a lot of control broHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 10:39 p.m.
                                               Re: welp, i posted a commentSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 9:38 p.m.
                             Re: welp, i posted a commentLeviathan 4/18/10 8:29 p.m.
                                   Re: welp, i posted a commentSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 9:02 p.m.
                 Re: A view from those asshole Hardcore gamersGeneral Vagueness 4/18/10 9:34 p.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?Cody Miller 4/18/10 6:47 p.m.
           Re: (F)ART OR NOT?NsU Soldier 4/18/10 7:08 p.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?ThorsHammer 4/19/10 8:50 a.m.
     What about this?Avateur 4/21/10 4:34 a.m.



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