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Re: (F)ART OR NOT?
Posted By: General Vagueness <General.Vagueness@gmail.com>Date: 4/18/10 1:28 p.m.

In Response To: (F)ART OR NOT? (Miguel Chavez)


"Santiago now phrases this in her terms: 'Art is a way of communicating ideas to an audience in a way that the audience finds engaging.' Yet what ideas are contained in Stravinsky, Picasso, 'Night of the Hunter,' 'Persona,' 'Waiting for Godot,' 'The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock?' Oh, you can perform an exegesis or a paraphrase, but then you are creating your own art object from the materials at hand."

Unless he's prepared to argue those aren't art, he's stepped on his own argument, there are plenty of games that induce the player to "create their own art" from what is presented.

"Why aren't gamers content to play their games and simply enjoy themselves?"

Why isn't he content to watch the latest explosion-fest with the depth of a spoon? What would he do if a million people, some of them very respected and some even pretty smart, said movies were not art?

"I repeat: 'No one in or out of the field has ever been able to cite a game worthy of comparison with the great poets, filmmakers, novelists and poets.'"

I felt a little iffy picking this apart because it sounds like he jumped in without thinking, but then I remembered he's a mature, sophisticated, eloquent guy, not some idiot on a forum (no offense). A rather large portion of games have been cited as such, and there have been a lot of games-- enough that there's no way he's seen every citation of a video game as art, let alone considered it like he did here.

"Obviously, I'm hopelessly handicapped because of my love of cinema, but Melies seems to me vastly more advanced than her three modern video games."

obviously
that pretty much seals it but there's more

"The only way I could experience joy or ecstasy from her games would be through profit participation."

Either he's never played a game with a good story (and actually it's pretty clear he hasn't) or he's never taken the time to get good at a fun game, and this part...

"The three games she chooses as examples do not raise my hopes for a video game that will deserve my attention long enough to play it."

...shows that's the case, he's played games period. Hey Roger Ebert, all the movies you like suck. I've never seen them but I know from reviews (ha ha ha) and people talking about it that they're not even worth my attention. Can you spot the faulty thinking here?
I'd like to see him argue the point with someone, and someone who's played a lot of games and has seen that some are artful; I'd really like if he could talk to Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw.
Until he does something like that and wises up, he's not to be taken seriously on anything regarding video games, I know I won't waste any more time on him.

You cannot fall off the floor.



Message Index




Replies:

(F)ART OR NOT?Miguel Chavez 4/18/10 4:06 a.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?NsU Soldier 4/18/10 6:19 a.m.
     (F)ART *NM*hyokin 4/18/10 7:14 a.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?DHalo 4/18/10 9:03 a.m.
     Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Leviathan 4/18/10 12:16 p.m.
           Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Jillybean 4/18/10 3:10 p.m.
           Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Cody Miller 4/18/10 7:01 p.m.
                 BLAAAAAAAAAAAHRiceatron 4/18/10 7:30 p.m.
                       Re: BLAAAAAAAAAAAHCody Miller 4/18/10 7:47 p.m.
                             Re: BLAAAAAAAAAAAHRiceatron 4/18/10 7:51 p.m.
                 Re: Vague, abstract terms are just headaches!Leviathan 4/18/10 9:16 p.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?General Vagueness 4/18/10 1:28 p.m.
           Re: (F)ART OR NOT?General Vagueness 4/18/10 1:30 p.m.
           Re: (F)ART OR NOT?SonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 1:46 p.m.
                 Re: (F)ART OR NOT?General Vagueness 4/18/10 2:27 p.m.
                       Re: (F)ART OR NOT?SonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 3:29 p.m.
     A view from outside HBOSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 4:54 p.m.
           cut/paste failSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 4:56 p.m.
           Re: A view from those asshole Hardcore gamersHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 5:24 p.m.
                 Re: A view from those asshole Hardcore gamersSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 6:03 p.m.
                       welp, i posted a commentHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 7:45 p.m.
                             Re: welp, i posted a commentCody Miller 4/18/10 7:59 p.m.
                                   Re: welp, i posted a commentHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 8:10 p.m.
                                         Cody.Riceatron 4/18/10 8:57 p.m.
                                         Re: welp, i posted a commentCody Miller 4/18/10 9:20 p.m.
                                               JRPGs don't give up a lot of control bro *NM*Hawaiian Pig 4/18/10 9:24 p.m.
                                                     Re: JRPGs don't give up a lot of control broGeneral Vagueness 4/18/10 10:08 p.m.
                                                           Re: JRPGs don't give up a lot of control broHawaiian Pig 4/18/10 10:39 p.m.
                                               Re: welp, i posted a commentSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 9:38 p.m.
                             Re: welp, i posted a commentLeviathan 4/18/10 8:29 p.m.
                                   Re: welp, i posted a commentSonofMacPhisto 4/18/10 9:02 p.m.
                 Re: A view from those asshole Hardcore gamersGeneral Vagueness 4/18/10 9:34 p.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?Cody Miller 4/18/10 6:47 p.m.
           Re: (F)ART OR NOT?NsU Soldier 4/18/10 7:08 p.m.
     Re: (F)ART OR NOT?ThorsHammer 4/19/10 8:50 a.m.
     What about this?Avateur 4/21/10 4:34 a.m.



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