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Re: An old issue regarding what's canon
Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net>Date: 9/9/08 7:20 a.m.

In Response To: Re: An old issue regarding what's canon (My7hos)


: I cannot see your logic here. How can one novel be "more canon"
: than the others, simply because one was written by a Bungie employee and
: the others were written by authors who also had direct access to the Halo
: Bible via Bungie? They should all be equal in my mind.

Because something like the Haloverse, at any given time, is actually larger than any collection of information about it you can put together in one place, and doesn't answer every question one needs answered in order to create a work.

Let me bring up another example from Star Wars: Alan Dean Foster's novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye, authorized by Lucas, from materials provided to the author, and designed to fit into the gap between Empire and Jedi.

In it, the author insinuates a romantic entanglement between Leia and Luke in stronger terms than ever done in the films, and in direct conflict with the relationship developed in Empire and the plot reveals in Jedi.

Defining that as "less canonical" upon its release because it is secondhand (written by a third party with access to first party materials, rather than authored by the first party) is logical because it means you don't have to retcon.

Any materials provided to a 3rd party have to be interpreted, and the interpretation may differ from 3rd party to 3rd party, not to mention differ from the meaning intended by the original author.

In addition, the first party may confuse the issue by creating new facts that contradict the 3rd party interpretation of older facts (use of BRs in Halo Wars appearing to conflict with novelizations).

Ultimately there are creators of this world-- Jason Jones and Bungie, and there are others (Microsoft, etc). Conflicts are easier to work out when they eventually arise if there is a clear hierarchy amongst sources. If all the sources are equal,

: Although perhaps with the exception of The Flood, because it was supposed to
: be a "novelization" of the first game, which should take
: precedence in any inconsistency.

: Why not? Cross mentioning is one of the best ways to find out if something
: had the touch of Bungie at all, rather than a total, out-there,
: side-project. Either ILB had access to Bungie material (however small that
: access may have been), or Bungie borrowed from ILB. Either way, ILB inched
: closer to canon than it was before.

Only if the information contained was secret.

We don't need to use cross-verification to know that the creators of ILB had access to portions of the Bible. 42 and Bungie both confirmed that.

We also don't need to know that, if push came to shove, ILB wouldn't be considered canon-- Bungie said that themselves. ILB didn't inch closer, it was pushed further away. Many fans considered it canon, and some thought Bungie had created it (they didn't).

I consider ILB about the furthest you can go before something stops being considered to have any canon value at all, and it's entirely intentional that it barely touches the portions of the Haloverse that are relevant to the game. The parts that do barely make any sense whatsoever, and are unrevealing.

Basically I think there are two differing philosophies: one that says that the more you consider canon, the richer and more fun the universe is, and one that says the less you consider canon, the more rigorous and self-consistent the universe is. I'm solidly in the latter camp; there's no point in building a database of what is considered "canon" if the threshold for entry is too low.

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Replies:

Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)UNSC_Trooper 9/7/08 12:59 p.m.
     Sweet.My7hos 9/7/08 1:02 p.m.
           Re: Sweet.kanbo 9/7/08 1:35 p.m.
                 Re: Sweet.My7hos 9/7/08 1:40 p.m.
                       Re: Sweet.grantix 9/7/08 2:23 p.m.
                             Re: Sweet.My7hos 9/7/08 3:52 p.m.
                                   Re: Sweet.grantix 9/7/08 4:02 p.m.
                                   I just registered.General Vagueness 9/7/08 4:13 p.m.
           Re: Sweet.kr-1426 9/7/08 10:34 p.m.
                 Re: Sweet.My7hos 9/7/08 10:46 p.m.
     Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)Avateur 9/7/08 1:11 p.m.
           Hm.BlueNinja 9/7/08 2:34 p.m.
     Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/7/08 4:19 p.m.
           Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)UNSC_Trooper 9/7/08 4:29 p.m.
                 Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/7/08 4:47 p.m.
                 Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)Avateur 9/7/08 8:02 p.m.
     By the wayUNSC_Trooper 9/7/08 5:13 p.m.
           Re: By the wayMy7hos 9/7/08 6:49 p.m.
     Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)vlad3163 9/7/08 7:58 p.m.
           Re: Halo Bible Project (halobible.bungie.org)UNSC_Trooper 9/8/08 4:29 a.m.
     An old issue regarding what's canonAvateur 9/7/08 10:47 p.m.
           Re: An old issue regarding what's canonAvateur 9/7/08 10:55 p.m.
                 Re: An old issue regarding what's canonOmega 9/7/08 11:00 p.m.
                       Re: An old issue regarding what's canonAvateur 9/7/08 11:03 p.m.
                             Re: An old issue regarding what's canonvlad3163 9/7/08 11:29 p.m.
                 Re: An old issue regarding what's canonUNSC_Trooper 9/8/08 4:39 a.m.
                       Re: An old issue regarding what's canonNarcogen 9/8/08 6:26 a.m.
                             Re: An old issue regarding what's canonAvateur 9/8/08 9:40 a.m.
                                   Re: An old issue regarding what's canonNarcogen 9/8/08 11:09 p.m.
                             Re: An old issue regarding what's canonMy7hos 9/8/08 10:15 a.m.
                                   Re: An old issue regarding what's canonNarcogen 9/8/08 11:12 p.m.
                                         Re: An old issue regarding what's canonMy7hos 9/9/08 4:34 a.m.
                                               Re: An old issue regarding what's canonNarcogen 9/9/08 7:20 a.m.
                                                     Re: An old issue regarding what's canonMy7hos 9/9/08 7:37 a.m.
                                                           Re: An old issue regarding what's canonLouis Wu 9/9/08 8:56 a.m.
                                                                 Re: An old issue regarding what's canonMy7hos 9/9/08 9:03 a.m.
                                                                       Re: An old issue regarding what's canonGeneral Vagueness 9/9/08 10:16 a.m.
                                                                 Re: An old issue regarding what's canonNarcogen 9/10/08 3:59 a.m.
                                                                       Core. Peripheral. Fringe.My7hos 9/10/08 7:28 a.m.
                                                                             Re: Core. Peripheral. Fringe.Louis Wu 9/10/08 7:41 a.m.
                                                                                   Well yeah...My7hos 9/10/08 8:38 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Well yeah...UNSC_Trooper 9/10/08 8:53 a.m.
                                                                                               Re: Well yeah...mendicantbias00 9/10/08 9:15 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: Well yeah...My7hos 9/10/08 9:45 a.m.
                                                                                                           Yup...and maybe...mendicantbias00 9/11/08 8:09 a.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: Yup...and maybe...My7hos 9/11/08 8:37 a.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Yup...and maybe...mendicantbias00 9/11/08 8:53 a.m.
                                                                                         Re: Well yeah...Narcogen 9/11/08 3:27 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Core. Peripheral. Fringe.Narcogen 9/11/08 3:24 a.m.
                                                                       IDICscarab 9/10/08 7:49 a.m.
                                                                             Story facts are canon, not interpretations.Narcogen 9/11/08 3:32 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: Story facts are canon, not interpretations.scarab 9/12/08 4:39 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: Story facts are canon, not interpretations.UNSC_Trooper 9/12/08 5:20 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: Story facts are canon, not interpretations.scarab 9/13/08 2:30 p.m.
                             Re: An old issue regarding what's canonStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/8/08 4:01 p.m.
                                   Re: An old issue regarding what's canonscarab 9/8/08 4:09 p.m.
                                         Re: An old issue regarding what's canonStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/8/08 7:16 p.m.
                                         Ratings and thresholdsNarcogen 9/8/08 11:14 p.m.
                                               Re: Ratings and thresholdsUNSC_Trooper 9/9/08 5:01 a.m.
                                                     Re: Ratings and thresholdsNarcogen 9/9/08 7:28 a.m.
                                               Re: Ratings and thresholds *NM*scarab 9/9/08 8:28 a.m.
                                                     Doh! Chrome ^^^^ *NM*scarab 9/9/08 12:33 p.m.
                                                           Huh? *NM*UNSC_Trooper 9/9/08 12:41 p.m.
                                                                 Re: Huh?scarab 9/10/08 7:16 a.m.
                                                                       Re: Huh?Narcogen 9/11/08 3:33 a.m.
                                               Re: Ratings and thresholdsRed_Breast 9/9/08 11:20 a.m.
                                                     Re: Ratings and thresholdsNarcogen 9/10/08 4:17 a.m.
                       A Halo movie would be canon?topleybird at work 9/12/08 12:33 p.m.
                             Two different canons.My7hos 9/12/08 12:45 p.m.
                             Re: A Halo movie would be canon?UNSC_Trooper 9/12/08 12:45 p.m.
           Re: An old issue regarding what's canonNarcogen 9/8/08 2:44 a.m.



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