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Re: Sweet.
Posted By: Fenix <girthanthyclops@hotmail.com>	Date: 7/14/08 11:28 p.m.
In Response To: Sweet. (Spartan Jag) : Halo Wars is gonna be an awesome game. I mean, looking at the combat so far, : I'm glad it lasts a bit longer than most RTS games, because it allows you : to actually have tactics rather than just winning by brute force alone, : like in games like Starcraft. : In Starcraft, moving some Marines in a pincer maneuver won't do anything : other than get them all killed because it takes too long... but Halo Wars : gives me hope. And we get to enjoy more explosions and cool effects at the : same time... : I'm also digging the fact that the Marines have dialogue in-game like we : enjoy in the current Halo games... 'Pencil pushers...' : And look at those Spartans boarding the Wraiths... kick ass. : - Jag Absolutely everything in that post is completely wrong. Not a subjective "wrong," but flat out erroneous. Like: 1+1=3. - Jag Hell, I can guarantee you that even the boys over at Ensemble would call you an idiot for what you just claimed. Starcraft is considered one of the most competitive and balanced RTS games ever and enjoys a thoroughly rich professional scene that has proliferated for the past 10 years. It's still moving along quite strongly because the game has an incomprehensibly high skill ceiling. To call what's in that video "tactics" in comparison to Starcraft is an insult the very word itself. I barely know where to begin in attempting to explain to you the sheer amount of tactical decision-making that goes into competitive Starcraft play. What you call "tactics" here, referencing a "pincer maneuver," is considered micro-management in the RTS genre; something this Halo Wars video appeared to be lacking (possibly the player's fault as he idly sat there watching his army get glassed in the first video. I sat there thinking, "Can he not move his remaining army back?"). Micro-management refers to the player's ability to manage his army's position, engagements and attacks. In Starcraft this is a considerable amount of the gameplay. A player's ability to micro-manage his army can often be the deciding factor between two players who have similar macro-management skills (we'll get to that later). Take this video for example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVN7ssHw_DE. Here we have 3 marines (sometimes considered the weakest unit in the game) up against two Lurkers (a unit normally capable of taking out scores of unmanaged marines). Similar videos involving much weaker units prevailing against tougher units dude to skilled unit control can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhz4p2kfu3s (Highlights of a very "micro" intensive game) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cae67O_ibT0 (More lowly Tier 1 units taking out a much larger and more powerful force of cloaked Tier 2 units) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJVait72LOU (One of the first displays of "mutalisk micro" involving a pro gamer taking a relatively weak unit, infiltrating an enemy base and literally crippling his economy) More insight into the amount of multitasking and tactical decision making can be seen in any video from a pro gamer's perspective: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=FPVOD If you know nothing about Starcraft you don't even understand what's going on, any of these will help: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=starcraft+commentary In addition to micro management, there is macro-management, which, to keep things simple, refers to managing your resources. Producing units, what composition of units you opt for, deciding when to expand to another base, how to expand, deciding what upgrades and tech you go for, striking the correct balance of tech, bases or army to spend your resources on (all the while, deciding these things based largely on what you scout of your enemy and formulating the proper counters) need to be considered, as well as managing your troops' position and attacks. The sheer amount of multi-task required to compete in Starcraft is staggering. Managing drops into a Protoss base, flanking a moving Terran army, managing High Templar Psionic Storms on hordes of Zerg units, managing your detection for cloaked units, managing each unit type in the middle of a confrontation to maximize their potential in battle all require a high amount of tactical decision making and responsiveness to the fluidity of the game. This game isn't about massing units and sending them at each other, there is so much more to unit control than you seem to think. Chances are this has entirely gone over your head because you referred to a game you clearly don't fully understand or probably have never played before. Judging by what you said, you certainly don't know the first thing about RTS games if you think that what was in that Halo Wars video was highly competitive and tactical, especially in comparison to Starcraft. I saw very little unit control, no true "pincer" maneuver that you speak of, an extremely small amount of macro-management and literally no multitasking whatsoever. Nothing at all to make me expect a high amount of unit control, and not nearly close to the kind required for Starcraft. Try not to make yourself look like an idiot in the future and make sure you know what you're talking about before you do so. Of course I could be wrong, along with all of these people: -HP

Message Index

New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Stormwing	7/14/08 8:16 p.m.
Yay! *NM*	BlueNinja	7/14/08 8:20 p.m.
Another:	Spartan Jag	7/14/08 8:55 p.m.
Sweet.	Spartan Jag	7/14/08 9:04 p.m.
Re: Sweet.	masterskill	7/14/08 10:48 p.m.
Re: Sweet.	Spartan Jag	7/14/08 11:11 p.m.
Re: Sweet.	masterskill	7/14/08 11:32 p.m.
Re: Sweet.	Fenix	7/14/08 11:28 p.m.
Re: Sweet.	DrDoctor	7/15/08 12:54 a.m.
gah should have refreshed didn't see this 1 *NM*	JRod4549	7/14/08 9:06 p.m.
Re: Another:	Urban Reflex	7/15/08 5:32 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Aglor	7/14/08 9:03 p.m.
Re: Don't forget this one	JRod4549	7/14/08 9:05 p.m.
Re: Don't forget this one	Dargonov	7/14/08 9:38 p.m.
Re: Don't forget this one	Aglor	7/14/08 9:43 p.m.
Re: Don't forget this one	InnerRayg	7/14/08 10:37 p.m.
Re: Don't forget this one	Dargonov	7/15/08 1:13 a.m.
Re: Don't forget this one	Peptuck	7/15/08 2:33 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Metalingus627	7/14/08 9:20 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	DHalo	7/14/08 9:35 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Aglor	7/14/08 9:44 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	MasterNoob	7/15/08 12:31 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Speedhuntr	7/14/08 10:01 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Peptuck	7/15/08 2:18 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	DrDoctor	7/15/08 12:56 a.m.
Rally points, mb? *NM*	gunluva	7/15/08 1:12 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Psychophan7	7/15/08 2:22 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Omega	7/15/08 11:21 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Urban Reflex	7/15/08 5:28 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Mortifer Nexus	7/15/08 5:45 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Sep7imus [subnova]	7/15/08 6:29 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Psychophan7	7/15/08 7:35 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Peptuck	7/15/08 2:21 p.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Omega	7/15/08 11:49 a.m.
Re: New Halo Wars Gameplay Video	Vincent	7/15/08 12:53 p.m.