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Thanks Bungie! My response *long*
Posted By: Awe Venger <tim_awe@hotmail.com>Date: 3/20/08 4:36 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Sidewinder's back, baby! (sketchfactor)


Hmm, tricky issue, and I will give two answers, depending on vehicle abundance.

Synopsis:

For infantry maps, I can imagine Halo 2 remakes, and would gladly pay for a lot of them. Halo CE maps are too familiar to me, I love the way they play and I'd rather have their spirit live on in another form than the geometry.

For vehicle maps, Halo CE is now emptied, and I think too much potential can be squeezed out of the Halo 2 maps with some work to warrant a straight copy/paste job. I like the Halo PC exclusive maps better, but there a straight port is out of the question. Still, their ideas hold a lot of promise to me and spiritual successors to Death Island, Timberland, Danger Canyon and - depending on execution of ideas - Gephyrophobia, are high on my wish list.

But, if there are new, revolutionizing ideas in the Bungie factory that stand out from this crowd, I am dying to see those.


The article itself:

As far as infantry maps go, near to pixel perfect Halo 2 ports for some maps do not bother me that much on their own. I love the play mechanics of some of the smaller maps, like Beaver Creek, Midship, Lockout and all of the H2 map pack maps that were new. (I don't overall like Lockout, but the game mechanics and the ideas in it are awesome!) These maps cry for strategic team playing, but also allow frantic "I don't care what I'm doing" games with a set of friends or in FFA. I also like the feel of "being back" in the sense that The Covenant brings me back to The Silent Cartographer. Halo 2 ports are welcomed by me. I like H1 maps better, but:

Halo 1 ports will be a wholly different cake altogether. Some of my favourites, like Boarding Action, Hang 'Em High, Prisoner and Damnation are just loveable. With eight weapons in the arsenal, 'nade points and a maximum fall height of ten metres. I am afraid that parts of the gameplay mechanics are altered so much by the new weapons available and physics remodelling that they'll be - in my eyes - a shadow of their former selves. I would be the first to admit that I've played those maps to death, burnt them into my instincts, and that altering the gameplay mechanics in them would be akin to learning to mix custard and mustard on my apple pie and like it! Hence, the ports would have to be remade with caution. And if I wanna play old school, I play with my old friends on my old maps.

One tip/desire/whatever: Old School Longest. The idea of choosing which of the corridors to go in, the slight restriction of getting from A to B forcing tactical gameplay, and all the small things to take advantage of just makes for amazing tactical play. Lobbing grenades on the wall dents so they stay in the portion of the corridor: Sweet, hiding in the floor if the firefight gets too tough (remember the small pits with pistols and grenades in them?): Sweet, and having to make sacrifices to get to the inferior enemy sitting perched on the second floor in the other corridor: awesome gameplay. (All things listed I missed from Elongation.) Scaling the map geometry by [Map Geometry] x [Change in jump distance] would be fine by me. I guess I just miss Longest too much.

As for vehicle-centered maps, I don't see anything else than spiritual remakes. Starting in Halo 1, they're both in now, so not much more to add. From Halo 2, the map I enjoyed the most, Containment, is already in Valhalla. (The trench, the rocks to drive over the trench, foliage and cover everywhere. I like to see it as more of Containment than Blood Gulch. Yes, I add fusion core piles in forge.) Of course, there are maps like Terminal, Headlong and Waterworks. For these maps, pardon the lack of analysis, but I don't think they're iconic enough, or stand up to the Halo 3 maps in their current state. They're good though, so spiritual successors are welcomed, but I think very much could be done to them to amp up the fun; they all reek of potential. Like Relic, one of the best ideas for a vehicle map ever! Though, I think it could benefit from more height differences and a slightly wider island, eventually even encompassing Multi Flag as well as it does Single Flag. I'd love to see player movement ideas on that map, as well.

Here's the other reason spiritual successors is my machete in the remake jungle: Halo PC Maps are copyrighted outside of Bungie. I love them to bits! Death Island, Timberland and Danger Canyon will always be in my heart, while holding an affection for Infinity and the dogfight heaven that is Gephyrophobia. (Banshees vs. Hornets anyone?) Recipe for nostalgia and presumably happiness: mix ample amounts of scenery and geometry from The Covenant with multiplayer spices taken from the trees of Valhalla, mould to a round shape, and let it swell a little both on height and width. Bake in the heat of playtesting, and eventually add a little river for decoration before serving. Voilá! An island with the great mix of grass and Forerunner architecture, height differences and vehicle battles (oh my!), lovely water and some great promise. Or, if Avalanche doesn't give much aerial combat already; mancannons criss-crossing vast depths with banshees and hornets flying in between with narrow beams and buildings spanning across vast chasms where players are coordinating flag caps. Mmh! Spiritual successors!

It is my distinct belief that the heads at Bungie could make awesome maps with the ground ideas laid forth in their previous games, mainly for vehicle maps. However, you guys have never ceased to surprise me with new, interesting gameplay ideas that just click. I think copy/paste jobs are out of the question, but besides that, I do not care extremely much what you do, I will still love the maps.


Message Index




Replies:

Sidewinder's back, baby!Gravemind 3/19/08 1:01 a.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Omega 3/19/08 1:04 a.m.
           Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Gravemind 3/19/08 1:18 a.m.
           Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Louis Wu 3/19/08 8:46 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Omega 3/19/08 10:37 a.m.
                       Whoa. That was close. *NM*Gravemind 3/19/08 1:23 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby! *NM*RiveR 3/19/08 11:41 p.m.
                       Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!RiveR 3/19/08 11:54 p.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!xenøs 3/20/08 6:00 a.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Gravemind 3/19/08 1:05 a.m.
     So pretty... *NM*Eiii 3/19/08 1:33 a.m.
     Do the Mancannons shoot you OVER the central wall?Leviathan 3/19/08 1:40 a.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!gunluva 3/19/08 1:44 a.m.
           Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!InnerRayg 3/19/08 1:57 a.m.
           Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Ragashingo 3/19/08 2:07 a.m.
           Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Zerowind117 3/19/08 2:45 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!ACEfanatic02 3/19/08 3:11 a.m.
                       Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Avateur 3/19/08 3:29 a.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!FyreWulff 3/19/08 3:58 a.m.
                       Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!DiscipleN2k 3/19/08 1:03 p.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Louis Wu 3/19/08 1:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!DiscipleN2k 3/19/08 2:59 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Ragashingo 3/19/08 8:40 a.m.
           Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!sketchfactor 3/19/08 2:11 p.m.
                 Won't physics be an issue??Boxer 3/19/08 3:01 p.m.
                 Tombstone (R.I.P.)Stuntmutt 3/19/08 3:01 p.m.
                       Re: Tombstone (R.I.P.)BolognaFire 3/19/08 3:12 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Ragashingo 3/19/08 3:07 p.m.
                       Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Urban Reflex 3/19/08 3:59 p.m.
                 Wow, nobody has replied to this yet?SinisterSamurai 3/19/08 3:14 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Dustbunny27 3/19/08 3:16 p.m.
                 Re: Do it Sketch!Devin Olsen 3/19/08 3:32 p.m.
                 I'm tornAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/19/08 3:35 p.m.
                       Ahem. "Classic Sack" maybe? *NM*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/19/08 3:37 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!elessar787 3/19/08 3:37 p.m.
                       Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!sketchfactor 3/19/08 3:52 p.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Urban Reflex 3/19/08 4:04 p.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Bootsman 3/19/08 6:55 p.m.
                             Better/Slower > Faster/CrappierToastyKen 3/20/08 6:56 a.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!calmkiller 3/20/08 10:08 a.m.
                             Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!NOKYARD 3/20/08 11:12 a.m.
                                   I would settle for some extra large cracked decal *NM*SinisterSamurai 3/20/08 11:24 a.m.
                                         + audio of the ice cracking & popping *NM*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 3/20/08 12:32 p.m.
                                               True *NM*SinisterSamurai 3/20/08 12:46 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Nevan 3/19/08 3:46 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Urban Reflex 3/19/08 3:51 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Slothboy 3/19/08 3:52 p.m.
                 Verticality!sorahn 3/19/08 4:03 p.m.
                       Re: Verticality!Urban Reflex 3/19/08 4:11 p.m.
                             Re: Verticality! === Construct *NM*Magni Harvald 3/19/08 5:01 p.m.
                                   ramps or raised platforms =/= grav lifts :( *NM*BolognaFire 3/19/08 5:08 p.m.
                                         Re: ramps or raised platforms =/= grav lifts :(Ducain 3/19/08 5:21 p.m.
                       Re: Verticality! === PRISONERmakaveli0360 3/19/08 4:19 p.m.
                             Re: Verticality! === Boarding Actionbluerunner 3/19/08 4:29 p.m.
                                   Re: Verticality! === Boarding Actionsketchfactor 3/19/08 5:37 p.m.
                                         Re: Verticality! === Boarding ActionSinisterSamurai 3/19/08 7:09 p.m.
                                               NOW HERES A MAN THAT TALKS SENSE /\nomis78 3/19/08 9:40 p.m.
                       Sor, there is Isolation. That map confuses.Mr. Kint 3/21/08 3:25 p.m.
                       Doesn't Construct fit the bill? *NM*pete_the_duck 3/21/08 4:12 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Cody Miller 3/19/08 4:03 p.m.
                 Tombstone=please god nomakaveli0360 3/19/08 4:18 p.m.
                       Re: Tombstone=please god nowafermouse 3/19/08 5:26 p.m.
                             Re: Tombstone=please god noDuncan 3/19/08 6:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Tombstone=please god noMagni Harvald 3/19/08 6:22 p.m.
                 Halo 2 Map pack + questionsorahn 3/19/08 4:31 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!xMixMasterx 3/19/08 4:43 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Psychophan7 3/19/08 4:44 p.m.
                       Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Grimlock 3/19/08 7:12 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Don 3/19/08 4:46 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!QuickTactical 3/19/08 5:01 p.m.
                 My ideal scenariowafermouse 3/19/08 5:03 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!jazo 3/19/08 5:20 p.m.
                 Please! My top 7.Duncan 3/19/08 6:08 p.m.
                       Re: Please! My top 7.Magni Harvald 3/19/08 6:20 p.m.
                 Here's my thoughts sketch.VVM 3/19/08 7:24 p.m.
                       Good points, allJordan117 3/20/08 5:03 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Black Six 3/19/08 9:33 p.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Avateur 3/19/08 10:20 p.m.
                 Response to the questionInnerRayg 3/20/08 3:13 a.m.
                 Thanks Bungie! My response *long*Awe Venger 3/20/08 4:36 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!xenøs 3/20/08 7:30 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!discopete019 3/20/08 9:23 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!serpx 3/20/08 10:54 a.m.
                 Enough about Sidewinder. Where's Prisoner?!Boxer 3/20/08 11:01 a.m.
                       With Halo 2 & 3's fall physics, Prisoner would be-SinisterSamurai 3/20/08 11:28 a.m.
                 Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!FyreWulff 3/21/08 5:50 p.m.
                 Another opinion on map pricing and packagingFyreWulff 3/21/08 5:58 p.m.
                       Re: Another opinion on map pricing and packagingelpolloguapo 3/21/08 7:39 p.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Avateur 3/19/08 1:51 a.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!vlad3163 3/19/08 1:58 a.m.
     Lars Bakken was WRONGJordan117 3/19/08 2:04 a.m.
           Re: Lars Bakken was WRONGXmoosev3 3/19/08 4:06 a.m.
                 Re: Lars Bakken was WRONGFyreWulff 3/19/08 4:27 a.m.
                       Re: Lars Bakken was WRONGBolognaFire 3/19/08 5:57 a.m.
                             Re: Lars Bakken was WRONGXmoosev3 3/19/08 8:25 a.m.
                                   OMG thead is shaped like Sidewinder *NM*Delicious Pie 3/19/08 1:13 p.m.
           Re: Lars Bakken was WRONGsketchfactor 3/19/08 2:13 p.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!FyreWulff 3/19/08 2:24 a.m.
     Anyone else spot the teleporter in the base?ACEfanatic02 3/19/08 2:26 a.m.
           Time to bust out the jackets.VVM 3/19/08 2:36 a.m.
     One Word: Teleporters. WOOT WOOT!!! *NM*Zerowind117 3/19/08 2:38 a.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!343winks. 3/19/08 2:45 a.m.
     thats a whole lotta man cannonnomis78 3/19/08 7:58 a.m.
           Re: thats a whole lotta man cannonOmega 3/19/08 8:33 a.m.
     ...That's it?Psychophan7 3/19/08 9:26 a.m.
           You know...Simpsons Rule 3/19/08 9:42 a.m.
                 :argh:Hawaiian Pig 3/19/08 11:28 a.m.
           Re: ...That's it?Louis Wu 3/19/08 9:43 a.m.
                 Re: ...That's it?Psychophan7 3/19/08 10:04 a.m.
                       Re: ...That's it?Miguel Chavez 3/19/08 11:18 a.m.
           Re: ...That's it?sketchfactor 3/19/08 2:20 p.m.
                 Are we going to see rocket cliff ?SPARTAN 294 3/19/08 3:13 p.m.
                       Re: Are we going to see rocket cliff ?sketchfactor 3/19/08 3:56 p.m.
                             Re: Are we going to see rocket cliff ?Moose Lord 3/19/08 4:08 p.m.
                                   Re: Are we going to see rocket cliff ?DiscipleN2k 3/19/08 4:20 p.m.
                                         Re: Are we going to see rocket cliff ?sketchfactor 3/19/08 4:22 p.m.
                                               Dream come true for me!Burr 3/19/08 5:18 p.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!Cody Miller 3/19/08 10:39 a.m.
     Please keep the ice patches!Elite Spartan II 3/19/08 5:41 p.m.
           Re: Or Rocket Race *NM*SinisterSamurai 3/19/08 7:14 p.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!AnEternalEnigma 3/19/08 5:54 p.m.
     Re: Sidewinder's back, baby!VRaptorX 3/20/08 9:12 a.m.



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