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Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*
Posted By: scarabDate: 11/16/07 8:30 a.m.

In Response To: Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP* (elpolloguapo)


: Yeah, that 'ol hunk of junk has had about 100,000 years to get covered with
: dirt, it generally takes stuff only about 2000.

From terminal 6:

L: My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.

: Um, they didn't know Earth, or humanity existed? We're really primitive?
: Like, really, really primitive?

Yes to all of the above.

: Ah yes, the Cortana letters, which Bungie has unequivically stated aren't
: Canon unless specifically corroborated in-game,

Their status as canon isn't relevant. What is relevant is that they show that this idea was present at the begining of the Halo story.

The important themes of a story are usually there at the begining.

Bungie thought enough of this idea to post it before the game was released. It wasn't just discussed internally, it was made public.

The idea does not become unthought because the letters are not entirely canon.

If you watch the Halo cutscene commentaries you will often hear Joe saying that Bungie doesn't always implement a cool idea first time round. They are tenacious. I do not believe that they abandonned the idea. I think that it is at the heart of the Halo story.

: Truth's
: comments...like...oh yeah! Forefathers!

It is not just an offhand comment. It is the reason that they decided to exterminate the Human race.

We were not being exterminated because the Forerunners chose us to be Reclaimers. Its not a matter of jealousy or worry that we would supplant the Prophets as leaders of the Covenant.

We were targeted because the three Prophets wanted to silence the Truth. They wanted to hide the fact that some Forerunners were left behind.

I know this because it is explicitly stated in the book.

This also ties into the statements that no one will be left behind that were made in-game in Halo 2.

I posted this in a message to you before, but I'm going to repeat the quote. Its from CH, from the pages I mentioned previously.

He could honestly say that he had spent his entire life without experiencing a single moment of spiritual crisis. He had accepted the Forerunners' existence because their relics were there to find. He believed in the Forerunners' divination because in all their ages of searching, the San'Shyuum had found no bones or other remains. He knew the Covenant's core promise that all would walk The Path and follow in the Forerunners' footsteps was critical to the union's stability.

And he was certain that if anyone learned that they might be left behind, the Covenant was doomed.

Read pages 272 to 278 they contain more than one comment by Fortitude/Truth.

: I'm the same person as my
: forefathers! They left us their legacy-we're more likely their adopted
: children. And Spark's comments, which you woud be able to tell aren't
: literal by listening to how he pronounces it and the context he puts them
: in if you weren't as blindly devoted to your theory as Truth was to his
: deluded faith.

I think that the basic ideas are contained in Bungie's story so I don't regard it as being my theory.

And I am certainly not blindly devoted to it. I have presented a multitude of evidence, quotes from various sources that, in combination, show that it is likely or even certain that this is along the right lines.

This is in no way a faith. It is a position that I arrived at through thought and consideration of the evidence and the alternative explanations.

: You're joking, right? Please tell me you're not taking everything Bungie says
: at face value. Have you learned anything in teh past 6 years?

There comes a time when the preponderance of evidence makes it silly to oppose the obvious conclusion. I am at heart a sceptic so I don't choose lightly. My background is in science and I never close the door entirely to doubt. I always question, its part of my core nature.

Nevertheless I can recognize when a case has been made and I recognize the difference between reasonable doubt and disbelief merely for its own sake.

Its possible that I am wrong but I think that it is unlikely. My certainty for this idea is in the high nineties. (as a percentage)

: Here's another obvious fact you're ignoring. Homo Sapiens has existed for
: 200,000 years. 100,000 of them are OUR history, the years since the
: activation. Look at the technology we have. Do you think that in 100,000
: years the Forerunners could get to technology tier 0, while we're still
: mucking about in the mid-ranges?

Yes, they had help, we did not.

: And don't tell me they got help from the
: Precursors, they'd have to have interstellar flight-LONG interstellar
: flight to find it if they originated on Earth. In 2552 we've only had it
: for a couple hundred years. Do you think that in, lets give 'em 250 years,
: the Forerunners could find, interperet and use enough Precursor technology
: to bump them up many levels? We have been unable to with Forerunner tech
: that we've found, so it stands to reason that if the Forerunners are us,
: they would also be unable to.

It looks like the whole hunter-gatherer lifestyle is a very stable one. Bungie even make a point of this in the Beastarium. <- significant?

Looking back at our own, real world, history, it looks like we spent a long time doing nothing particularly interesting then shot up in the past few thousand years.

If that sudden transition could have happend at any time during the last 100,000 years then it is possible for one group of Humans to make significant advances long before another.

This is especially true if they had help.

Probably all you need to do is to teach one population about the scientific method, you probably don't need anything else.

But if you also teach basic mathematics, say to calculus level, and some basic physics and electrical theory: then stand back and watch the sparks fly.

The Forerunners could easily get to tier 1 in say 10,000 years, maybe a lot sooner.

And if there were any Precursor gadgets to reverse engineer then it would be even quicker.

But maybe the Precursors went the whole hog and educated them to tier 1 in a single generation.

Any of the above is possible.


Message Index




Replies:

Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*yakaman 11/12/07 6:53 p.m.
     Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 7:41 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*yakaman 11/13/07 10:19 a.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Dundradal 11/13/07 10:28 a.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/13/07 3:28 p.m.
                       Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*scarab 11/14/07 2:16 a.m.
                             You missed his point, I thinkyakaman 11/14/07 9:06 a.m.
                                   Re: You missed his point, I thinkAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/07 9:50 a.m.
                                         Re: You missed his point, I thinkyakaman 11/14/07 12:48 p.m.
                                         You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 2:23 p.m.
                                               Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 2:46 p.m.
                                                     Re: You're not going to like it *SP*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/07 3:20 p.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 6:06 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You're not going to like it *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 6:14 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 7:31 p.m.
                                                                             This is my point, exactly.yakaman 11/15/07 4:00 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 5:11 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:12 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 7:46 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/16/07 9:55 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 2:19 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Willfully obtuse?yakaman 11/16/07 5:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Wait a second....yakaman 11/16/07 5:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait a second....elpolloguapo 11/16/07 5:50 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait a second....scarab 11/16/07 5:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Willfully obtuse?elpolloguapo 11/16/07 5:48 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Willfully obtuse?scarab 11/16/07 5:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/16/07 9:15 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 6:13 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/17/07 6:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 1:23 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/17/07 4:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 12:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 1:25 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 1:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 12:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 2:00 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 2:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 3:37 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Cthulhu117 11/17/07 6:17 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                           Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/18/07 5:55 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 6:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Cortana LetterNarcogen 11/16/07 9:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Cortana Letterscarab 11/17/07 3:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Cortana Letter *SP*Narcogen 11/18/07 6:15 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Cortana Letter *SP*elpolloguapo 11/18/07 6:56 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Cortana Letter *SP*scarab 11/19/07 7:37 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly.elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:06 p.m.
                                                     Re: You're not going to like it *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 3:40 p.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/14/07 7:05 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 8:28 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 8:34 a.m.
                                                                             Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 3:11 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 4:35 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:25 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 8:30 a.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *SP*Roflsalad 11/18/07 11:20 p.m.
     Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Orpheus 11/12/07 7:48 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 7:51 p.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Orpheus 11/12/07 8:09 p.m.
                       Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 8:16 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/12/07 9:25 p.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Dundradal 11/12/07 9:32 p.m.
                 Exactly.Cthulhu117 11/14/07 6:44 p.m.
                       Re: Exactly.elpolloguapo 11/14/07 6:53 p.m.
                             Re: Exactly.Dundradal 11/15/07 9:18 a.m.
                                   Re: Exactly.Cthulhu117 11/15/07 4:53 p.m.



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