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Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*
Posted By: scarabDate: 11/14/07 7:05 p.m.

In Response To: Re: You're not going to like it *SP* (elpolloguapo)


: Writing a response to this I came up with a lot of questions, so here are a
: few. You may want transcripts of the Terminals handy, so
: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals

: - How does one define "forerunner?" If we are some "lost
: tribe" of the same species, are we still forerunner? I think that
: only if we were a part of their government (for lack of a better term),
: can we be considered forerunner. And we weren't, if we were found just at
: the end, as Iris revealed. It's more a question of semantics and
: interperetation, but it needs an answer.

How does one define Human? Are some lost tribes not Human? Are communists? :-)

It may be difficult to formally define what it is to be Human. But its easy to spot one when you see one.

: - I think Spark knew more than he let on (man, it feels weird referring to
: him in the past tense). We know he knew (or suspected) of the existence of
: shield installations-"I always assumed it was part of a shield
: installation, but it seems I was mistaken." (cartographer cutscene to
: The Ark)-but he also knows (or thinks) that "his creators" are
: all dead-"After exhausting every other strategic option, my creators
: activated the rings. They, and all additional sentient life in three radii
: of the galactic center, died ...as planned" (cutscene before Tartarus
: battle, Halo 2). So what does he think (or know) happened to his
: "creators?" Why did they die if they had "shield
: installations?"

They either never reached them because the MB cunning plan backfired or they did reach them and are 'far away' from the galaxy. By far away I mean in either a hyperdimensional sense or litteraly far away, beyond 3 radii.

I think that they are dead. (Except for us)

: - The forerunners had to index everything at the Ark, and did. In the
: Terminals it indicates that there are many Forerunner in safety-the
: Terminals, specifically the Didact-Librarian conversations, indicate this.
: So again, where are they?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

In terminal 6, Ofensive Bias said:

[12:H 20:M 00:S]

I begin this report with no illusions that it will ever be seen by its intended readers. In all likelihood they have already committed [species-wide suicide] with the goal of preserving biological diversity in this galaxy.

Sounds like they died, as planned, when the Array fired.

I don't understand why the people on the Ark died. Maybe they chose to die, maybe due to racial guilt. I don't know.

Maybe they let us live because we were primative and hadn't had their advantages. We would compete on an even playing field with the other reseeded species.

If we had any worth as a species then we would do well.

: - The Forerunner had to index every species, and did. The covenant were at
: the Ark right alongside us. So why did the prophets get the front-row
: seats, so to speak. They presumably heard the words "great
: journey" (used a lot in the Terminals to refer to the activation),
: and thought it was some kind of ascension into god-dom. We didn't hear it.
: Neither did any other covies. Why?

I don't believe that they found out about the great journey at the Ark. They invented the Great Journey. It is a Prophet invention to explain the disapearance of the Forerunenrs.

From CH, talking about Truth:

He could honestly say that he had spent his entire life without experiencing a single moment of spiritual crisis. He had accepted the Forerunners' existence because their relics were there to find. He believed in the Forerunners' divination because in all their ages of searching, the San'Shyuum had found no bones or other remains. He knew the Covenant's core promise that all would walk The Path and follow in the Forerunners' footsteps was critical to the union's stability.

And he was certain that if anyone learned that they might be left behind, the Covenant was doomed.

Notice that there is no mention of San'Shyuum having been on the Ark or of wisdom learned on the Ark. There is no mention of the reseeding. Or even of teachings from the Forerunner.

His 'faith' was based on a line of reasoning based on the evidence. Its not based on revelation from Forerunner sources.

The MB(?) Oracle tells them:

FOR EONS I HAVE WATCHED
LISTENED TO YOU MISSINTERPRET

He didn't instill their religion into them. They adopted it in spite of him.

They made their religion up themselves.

And we may not have been at the Ark. We were the secret ace in the hole. And I don't believe that all the indexed races shared the same dormitaries. Though I don't even know how reseeding works.

: - What's the deal with Mendicant Bias? Specifically, his swapping sides. On
: Terminal 2 (legendary), he has a conversation with
: "LF.Xx.3273.>" (he is MB.05-032.>). From the text, it
: seems that "LF" is the Gravemind-"MB.05-032.> I have
: traveled a very long time to meet you. I had imagined that our
: [introduction] would be somewhat more violent."-who is conversing
: with MB on how peace is the best course of action but "[MB]'s
: creators" are rejecting it. Is this legitimate? Did the flood want
: peace? Personally I think it's "LF" 's way of getting MB to
: switch sides and sabotoge the Forerunner defense, but still, it's remotely
: plausible. (note: the MB-LF conversation takes place on nearly all of the
: Terminals when activated on Legendary)

GM lies, he's satan, lucifer, he uses his silver tongue when it suits him to do so. He understood MB better than the Forerunners or MB himself. After all, GM was an experienced collective mind. The Forerunners didn't have a collective mind and MB was probably not as cunning and manipulative as GM.

Don't take anything that GM said at face value. Every word was said for a purpose, to sway MB.

He appealed to MB's intellect, his vanity, his kinship as a fellow collective mind. He emphasised his similarities, the superiority of CMs and he used the Forerunners argument against them.

: -To continue with the above, it almost seems like the Flood tried to make
: peace elsewhere (or elsewhen...?) and failed, and now believe that
: consuming all is the only path to true peace. Did the flood fight the
: Precursors, too? Might they have won?

Why does GM enjoy it when he turns against us? Is that the behaviour of a nice guy?

I don't know if he has any relationship with the Precursors. We simply haven't enough information to even for decent guesses. Its only the extragalactic thing that they have in common. That may mean something, it may not.

: -And finally, a theory as to what the Legendary cutscene is. MB says he has
: reformed-"But I would have my masters know that I have changed.
: And you shall be my example." The most interesting thing about is the
: obvious fact that he intends to help us ("The path ahead is fraught
: with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - keep you safe. I'm
: not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly
: balances billions."). Now here's where I'm going. What is the
: likelyhood that MC's half of the Dawn would get shorn in half and fall out
: of slipspace right above a planet with obvious significance, leaving him
: unharmed and headed towards said planet? I think MB may have had a hand in
: it somehow. Perhaps he is there somewhere, guiding MC-guiding us-to the
: truth...

That may be true. Its very Bungie.


Message Index




Replies:

Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*yakaman 11/12/07 6:53 p.m.
     Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 7:41 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*yakaman 11/13/07 10:19 a.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Dundradal 11/13/07 10:28 a.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/13/07 3:28 p.m.
                       Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*scarab 11/14/07 2:16 a.m.
                             You missed his point, I thinkyakaman 11/14/07 9:06 a.m.
                                   Re: You missed his point, I thinkAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/07 9:50 a.m.
                                         Re: You missed his point, I thinkyakaman 11/14/07 12:48 p.m.
                                         You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 2:23 p.m.
                                               Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 2:46 p.m.
                                                     Re: You're not going to like it *SP*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/14/07 3:20 p.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 6:06 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You're not going to like it *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 6:14 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You're not going to like it *SP*scarab 11/14/07 7:31 p.m.
                                                                             This is my point, exactly.yakaman 11/15/07 4:00 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 5:11 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:12 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 7:46 a.m.
                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/16/07 9:55 a.m.
                                                                                                           Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 2:19 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Willfully obtuse?yakaman 11/16/07 5:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Wait a second....yakaman 11/16/07 5:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait a second....elpolloguapo 11/16/07 5:50 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Wait a second....scarab 11/16/07 5:52 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Willfully obtuse?elpolloguapo 11/16/07 5:48 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Willfully obtuse?scarab 11/16/07 5:49 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/16/07 9:15 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 6:13 a.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/17/07 6:20 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 1:23 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Louis Wu 11/17/07 4:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 12:06 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 1:25 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 1:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 12:08 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 2:00 p.m.
                                                                                                                                         Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 2:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                                               Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/17/07 3:37 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*Cthulhu117 11/17/07 6:17 p.m.
                                                                                                                                                           Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*scarab 11/18/07 5:55 a.m.
                                                                                                                                                     Re: This is my point, exactly. *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/17/07 6:30 p.m.
                                                                                                                 Cortana LetterNarcogen 11/16/07 9:18 p.m.
                                                                                                                       Re: Cortana Letterscarab 11/17/07 3:10 p.m.
                                                                                                                             Re: Cortana Letter *SP*Narcogen 11/18/07 6:15 a.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Cortana Letter *SP*elpolloguapo 11/18/07 6:56 p.m.
                                                                                                                                   Re: Cortana Letter *SP*scarab 11/19/07 7:37 a.m.
                                                                                   Re: This is my point, exactly.elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:06 p.m.
                                                     Re: You're not going to like it *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 3:40 p.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/14/07 7:05 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/14/07 8:28 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 8:34 a.m.
                                                                             Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 3:11 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/15/07 4:35 p.m.
                                                                                         Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*elpolloguapo 11/15/07 6:25 p.m.
                                                                                               Re: You're not going to like it *CH* *SP*scarab 11/16/07 8:30 a.m.
                                                           Re: You're not going to like it *SP*Roflsalad 11/18/07 11:20 p.m.
     Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Orpheus 11/12/07 7:48 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 7:51 p.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Orpheus 11/12/07 8:09 p.m.
                       Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*elpolloguapo 11/12/07 8:16 p.m.
           Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Stephen L. (SoundEffect) 11/12/07 9:25 p.m.
                 Re: Humanity-Forerunner Stuff, *CH Spoilers*Dundradal 11/12/07 9:32 p.m.
                 Exactly.Cthulhu117 11/14/07 6:44 p.m.
                       Re: Exactly.elpolloguapo 11/14/07 6:53 p.m.
                             Re: Exactly.Dundradal 11/15/07 9:18 a.m.
                                   Re: Exactly.Cthulhu117 11/15/07 4:53 p.m.



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