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Re: Story and Gameplay Integration
Posted By: 3Suns	Date: 1/15/07 8:56 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Story and Gameplay Integration (Narcogen) : Nah, I was already thinking of it. : That, as well as a look at where, in each game, story is revealed and/or : reinforced by gameplay, and where it is carried by cutscene, with specific : regard to the agenda of the forces you're playing against. I haven't : decided which of these to do first. I just played some more Gears last night and realized that there are more cutscenes than I was remembering. However, they seem shorter and more relevant to the immediate action before and after the cutscene (probably a reflection of the simplicity of the story as compared with the Halo story). Also, there are semi-controllable moments, mostly when receiving verbal orders, in which you can move Marcus around, just not quickly. Hmm... : It's a big leap. Gaming AI, I've always suspected, has been a bit like : modeling. A lot of times it's not really important what is actually going : on, it's important what it looks like. : I remember working on a school project once that was a model. My dad, being a : modeler, had a variety of tools and materials available, including : carboard sheets with textured stones on it. We wrapped that around a : styrofoam block to simulate a castle wall. : Another student actually built a wall out of wood blocks, block by block, : with glue, and then (inexplicably) stained it. : That student, upon seeing the model I brought, was in shock. In his mind, the : model he made, as it was authentic to the method of constructing a wall, : was better than mine. But mine looked so much better, because the texture : had been created by professional artists and was very attractive. Poor kid. ha ha ha. : Since there was no prohibition against such materials, nor any specific : instruction that construction methods had to be authentic, the only thing : that mattered was how it looked. I understand. Good analogy. : I think the comparison between scripting and AI is like that. There's some : part of the mind of designers (and some players) who want an authentic : analogue for how people think, partially because they feel it would be : better, but partially just because they want it. : With scripting, though, all the designer has to do is make some good guesses : about what the player is going to do, and implement an automatic response : from NPCs based on what an intelligent response to those actions would be. : It's reactive rather than proactive, and after a few replays, you start to : see the cracks-- you see the things the AI does that are totally : inappropriate, because your actions were not properly anticipated, because : on the 100th time through the level, you just wanted to try something : different. : I don't think scripting is going away. I don't think computing power or : programming expertise is quite at the point of providing an authentic : intelligence to play video games with open environments and cope with a : wide range of situations. Much better to have a good, general purpose AI : that can do basic things (fire, retreat, take cover) and then script the : particularly intelligent behavior one wants to show in response to : anticipated player actions. : Note that Halo doesn't have bots. I think it's because Bungie hasn't really : allocated resources towards the development of the kind of : level-independent AI code that you'd need for bot-style play, especially : for objective games. : That's a guess on my part, of course, but I think it's backed up by a look at : how NPCs and opponents behave in the Halo, Myth and Marathon games. : The barrier isn't AI here, it's art. Hmm... That makes sense, because since I heard about the model of A.I. being used for The Sims, no one has been able to convince me that a A.I. over scripting is either the better or more economical way to go for an epic AAA game. : For each of the various routes you take : to the bridge, art assets need to be created. If there are 3 ways to the : bridge (down the river, along the coast, around the hill) you have to make : art assets for all three. A player, first time through, will only see one. : The artists will have to trust replay value to be sure the player will : consume that content. But that is exactly what one would get (lots of people replaying it). There are very few script heavy games that I would like to play again. On the other hand, Rockslider type battles, especially if we can Saved Films them, I will play that again and again. Here is a recent example of the limited replayability of scripted events/linear gameplay. In Gears, there is an enemy called the Berserker. The first time I played the game I beat it on Casual and it is the biggest thrill I have had since I watched Alien and The Thing for the first time. All my high school horror movie watching days flooded back to me. It was my favorite part of the whole game. Last night, I went through that level again on Hardcore and beat it second or third try (within about 10 minutes). I got a 30 point achievement for beating it on Hardcore, which surprised me, because it was a cake walk compared to the first time on casual. I realized that the Berserker was a one thrill wonder. Too bad. : I don't think we'll see that. I think that game would feel too short. I think : that's why Halo 2 feels so linear. It's a long string of all the art and : design assets Bungie was able to make in the time allowed. If they made : every major encounter have 2 other options, the game would only feel 1/3rd : as long. : Think of finishing Halo 3 in 5 hours without trying hard! Hey, it need not be easy. There is no evidence that a well constructed Mombassa, with all the trimmings, need have been easy. This is definitely a personal preference thing, but I I would far rather have had a 3 to 5 hour game in Mombassa (that I could play over and over again - fighting with my NPCs riding shotgun, jabbering away) than what was Halo 2. To be very forthcoming, my domestic circumstance also influences this, I am sure. I simply don't have the time or concentration for a 40 hour game, or even probably a 20 hour game. By the time I complete it, I can't remember the beginning from the end because I have had to stretch it out over such a long period of time. (This is my only fear about Bioshock, though because of the A.I. modeling - open nature of the game - I have reasonable hopes that it won't be a problem). : The other method, of course, is interactive events, like Half-Life 2 has. : That has its own drawbacks. There was a large discussion about this last : year.. maybe I can find some evidence of it somewhere... I would love to read that thread. I'll do a search for it.

Message Index

Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	3Suns	1/10/07 2:50 a.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	Jillybean	1/10/07 3:41 a.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	Captain Spark	1/10/07 7:57 a.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	Jillybean	1/10/07 10:57 a.m.
Slight edit . .	Jillybean	1/10/07 10:58 a.m.
Here's the interview link:	FoolsRun	1/10/07 11:33 a.m.
Thank you! *NM*	Jillybean	1/10/07 12:42 p.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	Captain Spark	1/10/07 12:48 p.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	The More Deluded	1/10/07 12:52 p.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	Captain Spark	1/10/07 5:32 p.m.
Re: Susan O'Connor - process of games writing OT	Jillybean	1/10/07 12:57 p.m.
The Halo Campaigns. My review.	3Suns	1/11/07 1:31 p.m.
Re: The Halo Campaigns. My review.	Louis Wu	1/11/07 2:03 p.m.
Re: The Halo Campaigns. My review.	3Suns	1/11/07 5:40 p.m.
Story and Gameplay Integration	Narcogen	1/12/07 2:31 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Jman	1/12/07 2:59 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	reprobate	1/12/07 4:40 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	reprobate	1/12/07 4:44 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Narcogen	1/12/07 5:45 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	3Suns	1/13/07 10:26 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Narcogen	1/15/07 12:54 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	3Suns	1/15/07 8:56 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Narcogen	1/15/07 10:13 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	3Suns	1/16/07 1:19 a.m.
Battle-based games	Rockslider	1/17/07 12:33 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Peptuck	1/16/07 1:59 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	UrsusArctos	1/17/07 5:15 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Cody Miller	1/16/07 12:32 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Narcogen	1/16/07 1:58 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	3Suns	1/16/07 3:16 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Ma1agate	1/16/07 9:25 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Anton P. Nym (aka Steve)	1/16/07 10:13 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Sep7imus [subnova]	1/16/07 11:00 a.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Peptuck	1/16/07 1:45 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Hikaru-119	1/16/07 10:56 a.m.
Non-Stop Action	Narcogen	1/16/07 11:02 p.m.
Ken Levine on using quiet in games	3Suns	1/23/07 2:26 a.m.
Re: Ken Levine on using quiet in games	Red_Breast	1/23/07 12:02 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Cody Miller	1/17/07 1:28 p.m.
Re: Story and Gameplay Integration	Narcogen	1/18/07 4:47 a.m.
Re: The Halo Campaigns. My review.	Cody Miller	1/16/07 12:17 a.m.