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Re: Note about the Flood
Posted By: Narcogen <narcogen@rampancy.net>Date: 9/13/06 9:24 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Note about the Flood (UrsusArctos)

: Hmm...you may have hit the nail on the head. After all, the Arbiter
: immediates recognizes Guilty Spark for what he is, and Regret condemns the
: oracles as worthless.

If you mean that he recognizes his appearance-- sure. Obviously the Covenant have come across enough Forerunner artifacts to know one when they see one. More than that, they've identified Monitors specifically and given them the appellation "oracles". But again, that may just be them imbuing an item with no religious significance to the Forerunners with religious significance, either out of ignorance... or... heh... by design.

The Arbiter has heard of Oracles enough to recognize
: one immediately, and Regret knows them well enough to get sick of Penitent
: Tangent as soon as he starts talking.(He was along with him with Gravemind
: for a long time, but I imagine that Gravemind wouldn't let them converse
: with each other or argue...especially since he has listened long enough)

Well, you know what they say, a prophet is never respected in his home town.

: He certainly may not be motivated to lie outright, because a lie would
: thoroughly mess up all his credibility, and that'd give trouble to a whole
: lot of story fans trying to make sense of this mess. Tell you the truth,
: sparky didn't lie, he just didn't tell all the truth.

He may not know all the truth. Or, consistent with some of his other remarks, he may already assume people know more than they do. That's already happened once.

: But Halo is not a weapon of last resort! Remember what Cortana said,
: "This is not a cudgel, you barbarian!" , and all of Spark's
: lines concerning Halo's research facilities, and the fact that they can
: indeed be visited later.

In Halo 2, that is exactly how Spark describes it. The Arbiter asks what Halo is, and Spark replies "weapons of last resort".

Certainly other weapons DO work on the Flood. You use them throughout the entire game, and the Flood are killed dead. However, in the long run this is ineffective because the Flood spreads faster than you can kill all the infected individuals.

It's like a custom Zombie game. It's just a matter of time before the Zombies win. They almost can't lose by definition.

Think about the events of Halo 1. Spark wants to activate the installation. But apparently we are led to believe that by detonating the PoA's engines and destroying it, the Flood were prevented from escaping the ring. That may or may not be so. However, if we take it on face value that this happened, then that was an alternative way of handling that particular instance.

Likewise, the Forerunners may have had other methods of combating the Flood, such as the Sentinels and Enforcers. But as Spark says during the Library, these are effective as weapons against the Flood "only for a short time".

One time, 100,000 years ago, those other methods failed, and the Forerunners activated their weapon of last resort-- Halo-- killing themselves in the process. However, their weapon was designed in such a way that although it would stop the active spread of the Flood, that specimens would be preserved so that the Flood would not be exterminated as a species. Spark also details that in the Library.

The Halos are meant as flood-eradication units
: all throughout their existence, and all aspects of the ring are dedicated
: to the study and eradication of the flood. The weapon is a part of the
: ring, a function that isn't used unless the flood are let loose and
: there's nothing else to stop them from leaving the ring and going on a
: galaxy-wide romp. The flood on Delta practically owned the ring. The flood
: on Alpha had been let loose, and were repairing a starship. "The
: flood are hard at work repairing your ship. The parasitic nature of the
: flood belies their intelligence." Halo's weapon needed to be fired
: only as a last resort to stop the flood, but the rings themselves are not
: weapons of last resort. That's a very important distinction.

I think you've got it backwards. If it were not for the ring's primary purpose of killing all potential Flood hosts, there would be no particular reason to contain or study them. I think the facilities for storage and study of the Flood exist on the Halo installations precisely BECAUSE they are weapons to prevent the Flood from spreading. It's a failsafe.

We don't know much, say, about the life cycle of an infection form. For the sake of argument, though, let's assume that Spark is right, that the facilities on Halo to store the Flood are essential to their survival as a race. That would seem to indicate that, without these facilities, the Flood would have been eliminated at some point in time in the past.

The logical candidate for this point is when the installation is used. One may infer from this that, say, infection forms have a finite lifespan before they must find a suitable host, and failing to do so, they die. If this were the case, when Halo was fired, all hosts were killed. All remaining free infection forms would eventually die. All remaining combat forms would also, presumably, eventually die. The Flood would be more than stopped-- they would cease to exist.

This is why Halo exists. To stop the spread of the Flood without destroying them as a species. The preservation and study functions exist BECAUSE of the destructive function; there would be no need for one without the other. One might presume that this is achieved by keeping infection forms frozen, or in some kind of stasis-- something that prevents them from dying in the absence of potential hosts.

Or, perhaps more diabolically, perhaps potential hosts are necessary periodically. That would go a long way towards explaining things like why the surface of the ring is empty when the Flood aren't loose, and why controls aren't tighter, and why Flood appear to be loose on Delta even before we get there-- a LONG TIME before we get there.

: There's no doubt that such mechanisms to preserve sentient life exist. But
: are the monitors fully aware of these mechanisms, or of their nature?
: Remember what Guilty Spark said when he barged into Cortana's data arrays,
: "Ridiculous! That you'd imbue a warship's AI with such a wealth of
: knowledge? Weren't you worried that it may have been captured, or
: destroyed?" We now see that one monitor (2401PT) was captured by
: Gravemind, and perhaps partially under his control as well. If Gravemind
: had access to the whatever data PT had, any galactic romps(As could be
: expected at this stage of the crisis) would target the very mechanisms
: intended to preserve life from the Halo blast, nullifying everything the
: forerunner sought to prevent.

Indeed! However, I am inclined to think he already had all of that information anyway. Certainly he wishes his captives to believe so.

: But Guilty Spark might have unearthed something in Cortana's data arrays that
: he wasn't let to know. He's indignant when he sees Cortana in Halo 04's
: core, and seeing that he found "A history of all our lost time",
: I'd say he learnt how all that lost time came to be, how life survived the
: Halo firing, and what mechanisms existed to prevent it.

I don't think he could get that from Cortana since Cortana was unaware of the firing before Spark revealed it. What he did get was a record of human civilization, covering the period from the last firing to now. I think it is logical to assume that with his masters extinct, Spark had little contact with whatever sentient life did exist in the galaxy after the firing. So in that sense, it is his "lost time". One can even see a touch of romanticism in Spark's use of the royal "we" there, presumably referring to himself and the Forerunners, or perhaps himself and the other Halo bastions, the Monitors.

Knowledge of the
: Ark was there all along, and Guilty Spark found it in Cortana's data
: arrays, transplanted from the core. He mistook it for Cortana's own data
: most likely because he expected humanity to know how to survive the Halo
: blast although he himself didn't have the answer. That's why he's so
: shocked about the Master Chief's ignorance.

I think Spark already knows where the Ark is. He doesn't need Cortana to tell him. His shock at the Chief's ignorance comes from another source, I think.

: Why do the flood need preservation? Or is it that they have some condition
: that makes them immune to the usual mass-sterilization protocols? This has
: to wait till Halo 3.

I believe that this is one of the central questions to the entire story. Where did the Flood come from? Why did the Forerunners come up with a solution to the problem of their runaway expansion that seems so illogical? What does Gravemind want?

: The Forerunners perhaps live on in humanity. Are they part of the human
: subconscious? How come Halsey is so, so smart, and how come she and her
: Spartans can go about with an innate understanding of the Forerunner
: script, something that the covenant don't have? Why is Master Chief a
: 'Reclaimer', someone who'd logically reclaim a past heritage? "When
: you last asked me..." "Why do you hesitate to do what you have
: already done..." Is he talking to Elijah, or is it to all of
: humanity? Remember, 'you' is plural as well as singular.

I strongly suspect some of these we may never get a definitive answer to. Much more fun that way :)

: Did Spark know all of the contingency plans from the outset? Or did he learn
: them from Cortana's data? And, most importantly, does he now understand
: the human-covenant-forerunner situation any better than when we first met
: him?

I honestly don't think there's any indication that Cortana had access to privileged information in the Core that Spark doesn't already have.

Staten Interview: Reading Between The Lines



Message Index




Replies:

My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesGravemind 9/11/06 11:40 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesNarcogen 9/12/06 12:27 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesKP 9/12/06 12:31 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesNarcogen 9/12/06 12:55 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSep7imus [subnova] 9/12/06 7:27 a.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesKP 9/12/06 9:39 a.m.
     Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/12/06 1:05 a.m.
           Re: Note about the FloodGravemind 9/12/06 9:43 p.m.
                 Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/13/06 2:49 a.m.
                       Re: Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/13/06 5:21 a.m.
                             Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/13/06 7:58 a.m.
                                   Re: Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/13/06 9:24 a.m.
                             Guilty Spark's credibilityUrsusArctos 9/13/06 8:16 a.m.
                       Re: Note about the FloodMister Froggy 9/13/06 9:07 a.m.
           Re: Note about the FloodNarcogen 9/16/06 10:46 p.m.
                 Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/17/06 7:53 a.m.
                       Re: Note about the FloodStephen L. (SoundEffect) 9/17/06 8:36 a.m.
                             Re: Note about the FloodUrsusArctos 9/17/06 8:48 a.m.
     You sir, have my respect.Endbringer 9/12/06 1:08 a.m.
     Page is down exceeded its data transfer limit.Captain Spark 9/12/06 7:46 a.m.
     Exceeded for me too :(yakaman 9/12/06 7:54 a.m.
     Mirrored here:Louis Wu 9/12/06 8:07 a.m.
           Font colour inversion request?hminn 9/12/06 12:43 p.m.
                 Re: Font colour inversion request?Louis Wu 9/12/06 12:48 p.m.
                       Re: Font colour inversion request?Hellhawk 9/12/06 1:23 p.m.
                       Thank you :D *NM*hminn 9/12/06 1:50 p.m.
                       Re: Font colour inversion request?ManKitten 9/12/06 2:10 p.m.
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                                                     Re: Font colour inversion request?[AMS] GreyThor 9/12/06 3:16 p.m.
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                                                     Note: Auto-aimJakeDaGreat 9/12/06 3:17 p.m.
                                                           Re: Note: Auto-aimGravemind 9/13/06 12:03 a.m.
                                                                 Tidbit on Controllers with PC FPSDoT_Gunslinger 9/13/06 12:11 a.m.
                                                     Re: Font colour inversion request?Hellhawk 9/12/06 3:39 p.m.
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                                   ow... *NM*BJB 9/12/06 2:21 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?ManKitten 9/12/06 2:38 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?RC Master 9/12/06 4:12 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?jdogmoney 9/12/06 5:13 p.m.
                                   Re: Font colour inversion request?Matt 9/12/06 5:24 p.m.
                                         Re: Font colour inversion request?Louis Wu 9/12/06 6:15 p.m.
                                               Re: One WordKP 9/12/06 6:24 p.m.
                                                     Re: One WordShishka 9/12/06 6:52 p.m.
                                                           Re: One WordJillybean 9/12/06 7:05 p.m.
                                                                 Re: One WordMa1agate 9/14/06 8:49 a.m.
                                   Pfffft...That's nothing...zugy 9/12/06 5:29 p.m.
                                         Re: Pfffft...That's nothing...TMoneY 9/12/06 7:12 p.m.
                                               Re: Pfffft...That's nothing...[AMS] GreyThor 9/12/06 8:05 p.m.
                                   There was a time when I would cry tears of bloodEndbringer 9/12/06 7:49 p.m.
           How'd you do that with the HTML coding?Gravemind 9/12/06 10:01 p.m.
                 Re: How'd you do that with the HTML coding?Louis Wu 9/12/06 10:11 p.m.
           Re: Mirrored here:ya know...vshields ash 9/13/06 1:22 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSA 9/12/06 8:25 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesCaptain Spark 9/12/06 8:44 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMister Froggy 9/12/06 10:02 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriespillar of awesome 9/12/06 11:06 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDucain 9/12/06 11:25 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesFrankie 9/12/06 12:06 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesKonrad 9/12/06 12:25 p.m.
           Thank you!Saint 9/12/06 2:24 p.m.
                 Re: Thank you!Peptuck 9/12/06 2:47 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSimpsons Rule 9/12/06 3:51 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 4:16 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesEndbringer 9/12/06 4:32 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 6:44 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 6:47 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:12 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 12:47 a.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesEndbringer 9/12/06 8:20 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:00 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesEndbringer 9/12/06 10:15 p.m.
                                               Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 11:56 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/12/06 7:09 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 7:40 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:03 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 6:17 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 9:23 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/14/06 12:19 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/12/06 9:32 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesDoT_Gunslinger 9/12/06 9:36 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 12:52 a.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 8:38 a.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 9/13/06 12:35 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/13/06 1:58 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 9:02 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/13/06 10:19 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/13/06 11:36 p.m.
                                         Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/14/06 12:18 a.m.
                                               Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/14/06 4:09 p.m.
                                                     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesLouis Wu 9/14/06 9:05 p.m.
                                                           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesTalkingElmo 9/14/06 10:28 p.m.
                                                                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/15/06 12:24 a.m.
                                                                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/15/06 12:58 a.m.
                                                                             Re: The pistol.Gravemind 9/16/06 12:31 a.m.
                                                                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/16/06 1:29 p.m.
                                                                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Serieschaostheory101 9/16/06 2:25 p.m.
                 Nice to see you around *NM*Miguel Chavez 9/13/06 6:17 a.m.
                 WoahDucain 9/13/06 7:41 a.m.
                       Re: Woahvshields ash 9/15/06 3:41 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesGravemind 9/16/06 1:34 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSith 9/12/06 12:15 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriespillar of awesome 9/12/06 1:04 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesjlchief 9/12/06 1:24 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewThe More Deluded 9/12/06 1:27 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewPeptuck 9/12/06 2:51 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewShortRoundMcfly 9/16/06 3:00 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewKoCKynVainn 9/16/06 3:03 p.m.
                             Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewShortRoundMcfly 9/16/06 4:59 p.m.
                                   Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series overviewchaostheory101 9/17/06 12:03 a.m.
     Can I get this book form?DanteThePoet 9/12/06 2:07 p.m.
     Game Difficultyyakaman 9/12/06 2:20 p.m.
     Missed one thing...Son Goharotto 9/12/06 2:51 p.m.
           Dammit!Son Goharotto 9/12/06 2:53 p.m.
                 Re: Dammit!Simpsons Rule 9/12/06 3:53 p.m.
                       Re: Dammit!mercury 9/12/06 4:40 p.m.
           Re: Missed one thing...Peptuck 9/12/06 2:56 p.m.
                 Re: Missed one thing...Son Goharotto 9/12/06 4:01 p.m.
           alien weaponscarab 9/12/06 3:30 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesmercury 9/12/06 3:45 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesJakeDaGreat 9/12/06 4:04 p.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesmercury 9/12/06 5:08 p.m.
                       Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesJakeDaGreat 9/12/06 8:07 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesShortRoundMcfly 9/12/06 4:41 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesJim Shorts 9/12/06 8:08 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 5:02 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesubersaurus 9/12/06 5:54 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesPsychophan7 9/12/06 5:32 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Series *NM*SA 9/12/06 7:39 p.m.
                 Accidental post... Sorry. *NM*SA 9/12/06 7:40 p.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesSlith 9/13/06 6:57 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesGravemind 9/16/06 5:53 p.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMothergoat 9/13/06 11:33 a.m.
           Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMiguel Chavez 9/13/06 11:53 a.m.
                 Re: My Thoughts on the Halo SeriesMothergoat 9/13/06 12:12 p.m.
     Thanks everyone.Gravemind 9/16/06 1:42 a.m.
           Re: Thanks everyone.Louis Wu 9/16/06 9:17 a.m.
     halo pc demojmcanon92 9/17/06 9:09 a.m.
     Re: My Thoughts on the Halo Seriesjmcanon92 9/17/06 9:10 a.m.



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