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Re: Leaving the keys in
Posted By: Recon#54	Date: 9/9/06 5:20 p.m.
In Response To: Leaving the keys in (Frost) : Actually, I think there are plenty of examples throughout their history. Just : to name a few, MaraMag, MaraMyth, and let's go for the blue whale here: : Red vs Blue. : I was the second editor-in-chief of Marathon Magazine backs in days of yore, : and having spoken with Zartman about the project (granted my doing that : makes it an exception compared to 99% of fan projects), I was informed it : was pretty much okay to print whatever I wanted and use Bungie graphics : and material at my discretion as long as I made sure to give proper : credit, make sure copyrights were made note of, I did not intentionally : misrepresent them on anything, and if they requested a change, I'd honor : that request. We had a decent run, made gratuitous use of Bungie material : after our graphics artist left to pursue other opportunities, and never : encountered a problem, never had a request from Bungie to alter anything. : MaraMyth I think is the biggest and best comparison to Halogen, except they : went MUCH further than we went into questionable material. For the : uninformed, they were a Marathon TC (that never reached completion) for : Myth. They stripped sounds, sprites, text, characters, names, and : everything from Marathon to use in Myth. Bungie's response? They were at : FanFests showing off their stuff and going, "Hey, look what these : guys are doing! Ain't it cool?" : By contrast, SSP on the other hand used 100% original models, artwork, code, : and so on and so forth. It was based on Halo, but everything you saw in : Halogen was made by the Halogen team. The only characters borrowed from : Halo were minor ones (not even including Master Chief or Sgt. Johnson). : And while Halo sounds and music were used in the internal alphas as : placeholders, it was understood from day one they'd never be in the : release. That's why I was brought onto the team: voice acting for several : characters, something I do semi-professionally. All vocals, sounds, and : music were our own creations to specifically avoid direct use of anything : created by a Bungie artist. It's disappointing that MaraMyth, doing direct : rips, got support for their actions, but we get legal attention when we're : tripping over ourselves to avoid reusing anything. : And then of course there's Red vs Blue. They break the number one cardinal : rule in that they're making money off of it. At the core of it, they're : showing recordings of Halo being played, talking over them, and selling : them for cash. I was taken aback when one of them (can't remember if it : was Burnie or Gus) mentioned in the Season 1 forums how much they made off : the Season 1 DVD sales and high-res subscriptions, and I can only imagine : that's grown dramatically larger with Season 2 and Season 3. That's not : just leaving the keys in the company van, that's letting you use it for : personal profit too. Fair enough. Though I can see that in one instance (your example) you made the effort to get permission. In the RvB example, I'm unaware of the details, but I cannot imagine that Rooster Teeth is unlicensed and unapproved in their endeavors. I am certain that my statement of "borrowing without permission = theft" has offended you as you feel that Bungie's permission was implied in your situation. I am not in a position to say that perception was wrong or right. I do now see how you can feel that permission was implied, even though it was not stated. If you wish my apology for my statement, I can offer my regret that I offended you with my words. I cannot however retract the statement as I do believe that using someone else's property without their permission is theft. In the case we're speaking of, it appears that the confusion is over whether permission was given, denied or implied. If I understand you correctly, you could view that my statement doesn't apply to you and your situation. You felt that you had an unspoken agreement and were proceeding based on that assumption. If that is the case, then I was not accusing you of theft, but simply stating a truism. I am sorry that I cannot offer you more. But I cannot apologize for expressing what I believe to be a honest and correct statement.

Message Index

Just awful, Halogen	Dracon1k	9/8/06 10:15 p.m.
That sucks. Hard,	Ename Nep	9/8/06 10:18 p.m.
After all that work? Dude. That sucks. *NM*	CowOnTheNews	9/8/06 10:18 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Dracon1k	9/8/06 10:29 p.m.
*long inhale*	NartFOpc	9/8/06 10:32 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	eiii	9/8/06 10:55 p.m.
Wait a second...	Saint	9/8/06 10:58 p.m.
Re: Wait a second...	Socrates	9/8/06 11:07 p.m.
Re: Wait a second...	Usul	9/9/06 10:24 a.m.
Something to chew on	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 11:45 a.m.
Re: Something to chew on	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:20 p.m.
Cherished Martyrs	AngelicLionheart	9/8/06 11:31 p.m.
Re: Cherished Martyrs	Dispraiser	9/8/06 11:56 p.m.
Can someone enlighten me?	serpx	9/9/06 12:36 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	Dracon1k	9/9/06 2:24 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	HipboyScott	9/9/06 3:12 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 7:13 a.m.
That's Probably Exactly It...	Mintz	9/9/06 1:46 p.m.
Re: Cherished Martyrs	Hawaiian Pig	9/9/06 3:08 a.m.
The irony is...	Frost	9/9/06 12:38 a.m.
Re: The irony is...	Cocopjojo	9/9/06 12:49 a.m.
Bungie is Microsoft *NM*	Pinkuh	9/9/06 2:49 a.m.
But are they?	HipboyScott	9/9/06 3:32 a.m.
Re: But are they?	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:30 p.m.
Not exactly	Jillybean	9/9/06 5:32 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Chryton	9/9/06 3:00 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Frost	9/9/06 3:43 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Slimby	9/9/06 4:10 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Marcus117	9/9/06 6:43 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Sc4Freak (From Halogen)	9/9/06 7:39 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	swelnet	9/9/06 8:07 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	vlad3163	9/9/06 2:59 p.m.
Request for Comment from Bungie...	Socrates	9/9/06 9:20 a.m.
Re: Request for Comment from Bungie...	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 9:41 a.m.
What Bungie would say	AngelicLionheart	9/9/06 9:43 a.m.
Re: Request for Comment from Bungie...	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:23 p.m.
Rumour Debunking	58	9/9/06 12:26 p.m.
Re: Rumour Debunking	Document	10/2/06 10:13 p.m.
So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 12:38 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 12:46 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/9/06 1:07 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Shishka	9/9/06 1:57 p.m.
Simple solution!	Saint	9/9/06 3:53 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 6:45 p.m.
WTF is wrong with you? *NM*	Usul	9/10/06 6:36 p.m.
WTF is wrong with YOU!?	AfroRyan	9/10/06 11:08 p.m.
Re: WTF is wrong with YOU!?	Louis Wu	9/11/06 4:49 a.m.
Re: WTF is wrong with YOU!?	Usul	9/11/06 6:43 p.m.
Halo UT mod still active!?	Mikemc	9/18/06 7:27 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Peptuck	9/9/06 3:01 p.m.
Halogen = Thieves	Frost	9/9/06 2:28 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Shishka	9/9/06 2:31 p.m.
Bummer.	SketchFactor	9/9/06 4:54 p.m.
Re: Bummer.	Frost	9/9/06 5:46 p.m.
What more could be said	Bry	9/9/06 6:36 p.m.
After three years.	Michael Finn	9/11/06 4:08 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/11/06 8:25 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Black Guard	9/12/06 6:27 a.m.
Re: After three years.	MinorThreat	9/12/06 5:33 p.m.
Re: After three years.	MinorThreat	9/11/06 10:01 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Bry	9/12/06 5:08 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Larrion	9/28/06 2:31 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Vlad3163	9/28/06 8:46 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 2:52 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	vlad3163	9/9/06 3:06 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 3:14 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:15 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	WhiteRaBbit	9/9/06 7:24 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Bry	9/9/06 7:47 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Frost	9/9/06 3:33 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 3:56 p.m.
Leaving the keys in	Frost	9/9/06 4:39 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	RocketMoose	9/9/06 4:42 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	Recon#54	9/9/06 5:20 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:22 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/9/06 4:51 p.m.
So Bungie isn't behind this?	jdogmoney	9/9/06 5:06 p.m.
Re: So Bungie isn't behind this?	Jillybean	9/9/06 5:35 p.m.
Re: So Bungie isn't behind this?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	9/9/06 7:21 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Major Silva	9/9/06 8:38 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:17 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Major Silva	9/10/06 9:30 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 3:50 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Narcogen	9/9/06 10:57 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:29 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Jillybean	9/10/06 10:12 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	UrsusArctos	9/10/06 10:26 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	9/10/06 11:35 a.m.
Getting a little OT	Jillybean	9/10/06 12:37 p.m.
Re: Getting a little OT	UrsusArctos	9/11/06 8:11 a.m.
Question	Endbringer	9/10/06 12:05 p.m.
Re: Question	Bry	9/10/06 1:27 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	KP	9/10/06 3:35 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/10/06 9:32 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	BJB	9/9/06 4:13 p.m.
Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	DarkSim	9/9/06 4:53 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	Shishka	9/9/06 7:28 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	jdogmoney	9/9/06 7:40 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	Recon#54	9/9/06 7:58 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	X42-C1	9/9/06 6:53 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen *NM*	DP	9/9/06 9:12 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:35 p.m.
The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 12:44 a.m.
Query	Walshicus	9/10/06 7:09 a.m.
Re: Query	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:57 a.m.
Re: Query	Walshicus	9/10/06 10:58 a.m.
crap	Miguel Chavez	9/10/06 11:17 a.m.
Re: Query	Miguel Chavez	9/10/06 11:15 a.m.
Re: Query	Recon#54	9/10/06 11:27 a.m.
Re: Query	Narcogen	9/10/06 11:25 p.m.
Re: Query	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 7:21 p.m.
Re: The Future	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:50 a.m.
Re: The Future	Narcogen	9/10/06 10:11 a.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 1:36 p.m.
Re: The Future	Louis Wu	9/10/06 2:59 p.m.
Re: The Future	Blck	9/10/06 3:04 p.m.
It certainly makes you think twice, doesn't it...	BJB	9/10/06 3:18 p.m.
Verily.	Saint	9/10/06 3:10 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 8:11 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	Recon#54	9/10/06 8:58 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 10:27 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	Recon#54	9/10/06 11:00 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 11:54 p.m.
Microsfot E-mail	Slith	9/11/06 9:45 a.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 4:18 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:31 p.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 4:41 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:46 p.m.
Re: The Future	Recon#54	9/10/06 4:54 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:57 p.m.
Re: The Future	Saint	9/10/06 6:49 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Masta Chef	9/10/06 9:10 p.m.