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Re: Halogen = Thieves
Posted By: Louis Wu <halo@bungie.org>	Date: 9/9/06 4:51 p.m.
In Response To: Re: Halogen = Thieves (Recon#54) : Bungie has never (to my knowledge) just "left the keys in" and let : the community "do what they thought is best". Whenever they have : licensed and released rights to their property, it has always been clearly : defined and widely known. What examples do you have of Bungie historically : "letting anyone use the van for good reason"? We're not talking about recompiling source code here - we're talking about using Bungie's intellectual property to make a mod for a different game. Bungie has never, before Halo, come down on ANYONE for doing this. Bungie has never, before Halo, been owned by Microsoft. Bungie has never, before Halo, had a game with this much financial potential, in so many different fields. Bungie released Marathon in December 1994. By February 1995, there were three separate teams working on map editors (created by people decompiling existing maps and seeing how they're put together), and by May there were two separate archives collecting the fruit of these editors. The archives grew, the types of mods expanded, and Bungie contributed tools to help their community build on their property. Nobody ever asked them for permission - and nobody was ever told (by them) to cease and desist. (One group of modders WAS asked to stop - but they were asked by Fox, because they were creating an Aliens mod, and Fox didn't want them using the IP.) The same pattern occurred with Myth - except that Bungie supplied the tools up front. At the same time, Marathon was branching out to other engines - there were mods under way to bring the Marathon universe to Half-Life, to Unreal Tournament, to Quake 3. None of these teams were EVER told that the day might come when they wouldn't be allowed to do this any more. Fast-forward 5 years. Halo's out, Halo 2 is on the way, Microsoft is aware that the intellectual property they got when they bought Bungie Studios has meant the difference between success and failure in the console wars. Teams of modders (as has always been the case, with almost every popular fps) have begun both bringing new content into Halo, and bringing Halo content into other engines. Bungie knew, early on, that things were different now. They were no longer an independent gaming company, made up of gamers, producing content for gamers, and thrilled by the content gamers are building from their base - they were now a unit within a vast software empire that has ALWAYS been aggressive with its intellectual property (heh - and others', for that matter). Not only that, but the content in question here is pretty damn important to Microsoft, in the niche that is gaming; without Halo, the Xbox is pretty much dead in the water. The more they can grow that Halo name, the better chance they have of expanding the Xbox influence (both among consumers, and maybe among developers, too). To that end, the bean counters are going to be really, really careful about what gets done with their property. If they had their way, the Xbox would be a totally closed system - nobody would be able to get content in or out of it. They obviously don't get their way all the time - the protection on the Xbox and its games was broken before the system was even released, I think - but they do their best. Bungie has said, more than once in the past, that while there were no plans (at the time of the statements) to shut down fan projects, that the day might come when it would happen. They were warning people that sooner or later, MS Legal would get tired of seeing Halo content in places that weren't making MS any money, and start shutting things down. Anyone who was working on a long-term project has known, from day one, that they might be told to stop; simply hoping that because it hasn't happened yet, maybe it never will, is burying your head in the sand. The Halogen team took a chance - and they didn't get the project out the door before the hammer came down. Sucks a lot - I'll be the first to agree to that. (I've believed from WAY back that third-party participation does great things for a game - I hosted the first real Marathon files archive, one that (except for a change in location) is still running today. That said, I can understand why MS is doing what they're doing. I don't agree with it - but I can understand it.) Halogen wasn't the first project to bite the dust this way - First Contact got a call a little while ago, too. (Remember them? Fall of Reach, in the HL2 engine? Gone now.) Microsoft has just decided to finally do something; it's not like they waited until Halogen was almost done - it's just how the timing worked out. I think it's a mistake - but they're certainly within their rights to do this. I just hope that folks don't hold it against Bungie; I don't think there are very many, if any, individuals within Bungie Studios who think that fans expressing their love for Halo by creating cool new content is a bad thing. :(

Message Index

Just awful, Halogen	Dracon1k	9/8/06 10:15 p.m.
That sucks. Hard,	Ename Nep	9/8/06 10:18 p.m.
After all that work? Dude. That sucks. *NM*	CowOnTheNews	9/8/06 10:18 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Dracon1k	9/8/06 10:29 p.m.
*long inhale*	NartFOpc	9/8/06 10:32 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	eiii	9/8/06 10:55 p.m.
Wait a second...	Saint	9/8/06 10:58 p.m.
Re: Wait a second...	Socrates	9/8/06 11:07 p.m.
Re: Wait a second...	Usul	9/9/06 10:24 a.m.
Something to chew on	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 11:45 a.m.
Re: Something to chew on	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:20 p.m.
Cherished Martyrs	AngelicLionheart	9/8/06 11:31 p.m.
Re: Cherished Martyrs	Dispraiser	9/8/06 11:56 p.m.
Can someone enlighten me?	serpx	9/9/06 12:36 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	Dracon1k	9/9/06 2:24 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	HipboyScott	9/9/06 3:12 a.m.
Re: Can someone enlighten me?	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 7:13 a.m.
That's Probably Exactly It...	Mintz	9/9/06 1:46 p.m.
Re: Cherished Martyrs	Hawaiian Pig	9/9/06 3:08 a.m.
The irony is...	Frost	9/9/06 12:38 a.m.
Re: The irony is...	Cocopjojo	9/9/06 12:49 a.m.
Bungie is Microsoft *NM*	Pinkuh	9/9/06 2:49 a.m.
But are they?	HipboyScott	9/9/06 3:32 a.m.
Re: But are they?	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:30 p.m.
Not exactly	Jillybean	9/9/06 5:32 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Chryton	9/9/06 3:00 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Frost	9/9/06 3:43 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Slimby	9/9/06 4:10 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Marcus117	9/9/06 6:43 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Sc4Freak (From Halogen)	9/9/06 7:39 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	swelnet	9/9/06 8:07 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	vlad3163	9/9/06 2:59 p.m.
Request for Comment from Bungie...	Socrates	9/9/06 9:20 a.m.
Re: Request for Comment from Bungie...	Silent Hunter	9/9/06 9:41 a.m.
What Bungie would say	AngelicLionheart	9/9/06 9:43 a.m.
Re: Request for Comment from Bungie...	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:23 p.m.
Rumour Debunking	58	9/9/06 12:26 p.m.
Re: Rumour Debunking	Document	10/2/06 10:13 p.m.
So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 12:38 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 12:46 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/9/06 1:07 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Shishka	9/9/06 1:57 p.m.
Simple solution!	Saint	9/9/06 3:53 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	AfroRyan	9/9/06 6:45 p.m.
WTF is wrong with you? *NM*	Usul	9/10/06 6:36 p.m.
WTF is wrong with YOU!?	AfroRyan	9/10/06 11:08 p.m.
Re: WTF is wrong with YOU!?	Louis Wu	9/11/06 4:49 a.m.
Re: WTF is wrong with YOU!?	Usul	9/11/06 6:43 p.m.
Halo UT mod still active!?	Mikemc	9/18/06 7:27 p.m.
Re: So...what's actually stopping you?	Peptuck	9/9/06 3:01 p.m.
Halogen = Thieves	Frost	9/9/06 2:28 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Shishka	9/9/06 2:31 p.m.
Bummer.	SketchFactor	9/9/06 4:54 p.m.
Re: Bummer.	Frost	9/9/06 5:46 p.m.
What more could be said	Bry	9/9/06 6:36 p.m.
After three years.	Michael Finn	9/11/06 4:08 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/11/06 8:25 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Black Guard	9/12/06 6:27 a.m.
Re: After three years.	MinorThreat	9/12/06 5:33 p.m.
Re: After three years.	MinorThreat	9/11/06 10:01 p.m.
Re: After three years.	Bry	9/12/06 5:08 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Larrion	9/28/06 2:31 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Vlad3163	9/28/06 8:46 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 2:52 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	vlad3163	9/9/06 3:06 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 3:14 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:15 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	WhiteRaBbit	9/9/06 7:24 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Bry	9/9/06 7:47 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Frost	9/9/06 3:33 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/9/06 3:56 p.m.
Leaving the keys in	Frost	9/9/06 4:39 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	RocketMoose	9/9/06 4:42 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	Recon#54	9/9/06 5:20 p.m.
Re: Leaving the keys in	SketchFactor	9/9/06 5:22 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/9/06 4:51 p.m.
So Bungie isn't behind this?	jdogmoney	9/9/06 5:06 p.m.
Re: So Bungie isn't behind this?	Jillybean	9/9/06 5:35 p.m.
Re: So Bungie isn't behind this?	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	9/9/06 7:21 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Major Silva	9/9/06 8:38 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:17 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Major Silva	9/10/06 9:30 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 3:50 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Narcogen	9/9/06 10:57 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:29 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Jillybean	9/10/06 10:12 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	UrsusArctos	9/10/06 10:26 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Stephen L. (SoundEffect)	9/10/06 11:35 a.m.
Getting a little OT	Jillybean	9/10/06 12:37 p.m.
Re: Getting a little OT	UrsusArctos	9/11/06 8:11 a.m.
Question	Endbringer	9/10/06 12:05 p.m.
Re: Question	Bry	9/10/06 1:27 p.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	KP	9/10/06 3:35 a.m.
Re: Halogen = Thieves	Recon#54	9/10/06 9:32 a.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	BJB	9/9/06 4:13 p.m.
Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	DarkSim	9/9/06 4:53 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	Shishka	9/9/06 7:28 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	jdogmoney	9/9/06 7:40 p.m.
Re: Bungie must making a Halo RTS next.	Recon#54	9/9/06 7:58 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	X42-C1	9/9/06 6:53 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen *NM*	DP	9/9/06 9:12 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	BlueTyphoid	9/9/06 9:35 p.m.
The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 12:44 a.m.
Query	Walshicus	9/10/06 7:09 a.m.
Re: Query	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:57 a.m.
Re: Query	Walshicus	9/10/06 10:58 a.m.
crap	Miguel Chavez	9/10/06 11:17 a.m.
Re: Query	Miguel Chavez	9/10/06 11:15 a.m.
Re: Query	Recon#54	9/10/06 11:27 a.m.
Re: Query	Narcogen	9/10/06 11:25 p.m.
Re: Query	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 7:21 p.m.
Re: The Future	Louis Wu	9/10/06 9:50 a.m.
Re: The Future	Narcogen	9/10/06 10:11 a.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 1:36 p.m.
Re: The Future	Louis Wu	9/10/06 2:59 p.m.
Re: The Future	Blck	9/10/06 3:04 p.m.
It certainly makes you think twice, doesn't it...	BJB	9/10/06 3:18 p.m.
Verily.	Saint	9/10/06 3:10 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 8:11 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	Recon#54	9/10/06 8:58 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 10:27 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	Recon#54	9/10/06 11:00 p.m.
Re: Verily. One last chance for MS.	AngelicLionheart	9/10/06 11:54 p.m.
Microsfot E-mail	Slith	9/11/06 9:45 a.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 4:18 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:31 p.m.
Re: The Future	SomethingClever	9/10/06 4:41 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:46 p.m.
Re: The Future	Recon#54	9/10/06 4:54 p.m.
Re: The Future	Sep7imus [subnova]	9/10/06 4:57 p.m.
Re: The Future	Saint	9/10/06 6:49 p.m.
Re: Just awful, Halogen	Masta Chef	9/10/06 9:10 p.m.