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Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of Answers
Posted By: Wado SGDate: 2/27/05 5:57 p.m.

In Response To: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of Answers (Eagle 117)

: A while back Eric Trautmann threw out a clue on the Halo universe, First
: Strike in particular, in an email exchange between Eric Nylund (author of
: Halo TFoR/FS), the HBO crew, and himself. He wrote, “I'm gratified that
: some of the more subtle stuff I finagled into Halo: First Strike doesn't
: look like its been stumbled upon. Hm... Perhaps a hint is in order. Who or
: what would wear a "Halo"? As some of you know, there were
: numerous failed guesses as to what this blank riddle might mean. After
: some time passed, Exogenesis, a HBO forum goer, ran into Trautmann at
: Nebula Weekend. It was here that Trautmann gave some insight into his
: riddle. Trautmann remarked that there was a clue to the meaning of the
: riddle somewhere on his blog. Not long after that nugget of info was
: brought forth, Anton P. Nym (a.k.a. Steve) presented the first credible
: answer, or key to the answer, for Trautmann’s riddle. His guess was the
: picture of a book he found on Trautmann’s blog. That book, which I own, is
: titled The Dictionary of Angels Including Fallen Angles.

: Well, Anton P. Nym, being the perceptive person he is, was the only person to
: ever receive a “warm” response from Truatmann; which consisted of,
: “Warm. At last:-) Just so we know what a cold response was, one forum
: goer remarked that he could see a Halo floating atop a Prophet’s head in
: the Making of Halo 2 vid. The response to this guess was cold. Do we
: understand the “game” being playing? Cold or no response was given for
: guesses which were way off/incorrect, and warm responses, of which there
: was only one, Anton P. Nym’s response, meant that you were headed down the
: right path. I’m explaining this so you’ll all know I’m not talking about
: some random book when I bring up the Dictionary of Angels/Fallen Angels,
: of which this thread’s subject is mainly about.

Do we understand the "game" being played? This perhaps is one of the most important pieces of all of this.

Anton P. Nym's response you speak of and Eric Trautmann's reply is in this post:

It seems that the clue is to investigate more in "The Dictionary of Angels" as you have done. But this game appears to only apply to characters introduced in the Halo novels. More specifically, the AI constructs so aptly named the same as angels and fallen angels. It does not seem to transfer into Halo 2 or beyond. Strictly subplot or foreshadowing into the motives and actions of characters in the novels.

: The Dictionary of Angels Including Fallen Angels is just that... a dictionary
: of angles. It's a listing of all the known angels/fallen angels in
: alphabetical order, all of whom are accompanied by a description of their
: purposes and/or events involved in. Behind these descriptions is an
: intricate epic containing fascinating characters and events. Just a brief
: incursion into the Dictionary of Angels will not reveal all this. However,
: after reading about the individual angels/fallen angels one begins to see
: a spider web of events that connects all the angels together. It’s quite
: an interesting book.

: As I understand it, the HBOers who paid attention to all of this figured
: Trautmann to have used the name of an angle or two from the Dictionary
: Angels, Ackerson’s AI Araqiel, who is a fallen angle, for example, and
: just left it at that. However, there are several aspects of this book I
: think to have probable influence on the Halo universe; of which, the
: Forerunner model is prime. As stated in the title, the Dictionary of
: Angels list two types of angles. Of course, there is the familiar good old
: fight for God angles, and then there are the fallen angels. Fallen angels
: are described, among other sources, in Revelations 12: “And his (the
: dragon’s or Satan’s) tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven
: (angels) and did cast them to earth... and Satan, which deceiveth the
: whole world; he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out
: with him.” These angels are known as fallen angels or, what most of us
: are familiar to, demons. Hm... isn’t that the name used by the Covenant
: when referring to a certain someone?

One would wonder why the name of a fallen angel would be given to an AI. Was Ackerson himself a devote man? Who gives AI's their names?

: Many have found uncanny similarities between the Forerunners and humans, but
: it’s seems a bit obvious that they’re not exact. The Forerunners are
: described by the Covenant as techno giants; knowing and implementing a
: level of technology that’s far beyond anything either the Covenant or
: Humans have an original understanding of. 343 Guilty Spark refers to the
: Forerunners as such in Halo 2, but he never refers to any human as a
: Forerunner. The Covenant description of the Forerunners, as well as the
: description given in the Covenant Primer, matches a particular group of
: angels. They are a high order of angels and carry the title of the
: Watchers; also known as the Grigori. They resemble men in appearance, but
: are taller than giants. The Watchers were sent by God to instruct man in
: the beginnings of civilization; however, many became fallen angels after
: they descended to earth to teach man forbidden sciences and started
: cohabiting with mortal man. The Watchers who cohabited with mortal man
: spawned a new race. These offspring were the Nephilim. In Hebrew lor, the
: Nephilim stands for giants of primeval times, fallen angels (demons)
: themselves. One of the reasons, often not discussed, for the Biblical
: flood was to rid the Earth of these half-breeds. Let me put it another
: way, cause for the Biblical flood can be traced back to the fallen angels,
: their leader in particular.

Some speculate that Goliath was of Nephilim blood as many of the giants referenced in myth of the times. How this connects to humanity, DNA signatures, and constructs, I do not know.

: As the Dictionary of Angels points out, the leader of the fallen angels
: (Satan is one of his many names) rejected the notion of man; by doing so,
: he rejected the savior of man. The rebel host in the Haloverse is
: Gravemind. When asked by Cortana who he is Gravemind states, “I am a
: monument to all your sins.” A monument is something that remains in
: remembrance of the past. When Gravemind states that he’s a monument to the
: MC’s sins he shows a direct connection between himself and the MC. It’s
: quite obvious, but I’ll state it anyways: Satan is a monument to man’s
: sins... also the fallen angles’ sins.

Interesting. Satan was around before man, so how can Satan be the product of man's sins? Look at this a different way. Cortana is not human, Gravemind is talking to Cortana. I could read this as Gravemind stating he is a monument to all THE SINS of CONSTRUCTS/AIs of the past. We know that AIs/Constructs existed before, 343 Guilty Spark for instance.

Why is it in Halo that Forerunner Constructs are given such limited roles, what is it that the Forerunner feared?

: Another important parallel to point out between Gravemind and Satan can be
: found, once again, in Revelation Ch:12. In these verses Satan attempts to
: destroy Israel through a flood; an attempt to recreate the Biblical flood:
: “And the serpent (Satan) cast out of his mouth water as a flood after
: the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away with the flood. And
: the earth helped the woman by opening her mouth and swallowing up the
: flood.” The woman being spoken of in these verses represents Israel, as
: it is later told that she wears 12 crowns, which represent the 12 Hebrew
: tribes. Before going any further, I should point out that Earth in the
: Dictionary of Angles is represented in the Haloverse on the galactic
: scale. What I mean by that is, if we were to follow any model based on the
: Dictionary of Angels, then the Haloverse would have to be Earth stretched
: out to cover the entire galaxy. In Hebrew and Biblical lor, Israel
: represents the symbolic center of the universe: it’s the birth place of
: man’s Savior, the promise land of God’s chosen people, the site of the
: final battle, and the platform from which man's savior will rule Earth in
: the new millennium. In the Haloverse, Israel represents Earth… pay
: attention to that. Using the verses above as a guide, one could say that
: Gravemind will attempt to bring the Flood to Earth in Halo 3, just as
: Satan will try to flood the women with 12 crowns (Israel) in Revelation.
: Because of this, I believe the 6, think about that number, remaining halos
: will be activated in order to prevent the Flood from reaching Earth.

: One last parallel to point out between Satan and Gravemind, something which
: also goes along with the notion of the Biblical Earth being stretched to
: cover the entire Haloverse, can be found in Revelation Ch. 13. Here John
: wrote, “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up
: out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns… the dragon gave this
: beast his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his
: heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed, and
: the entire world wondered after the beast.” This is the account of
: antichrist, who will be mortally wounded and then raised from the dead
: (possessed) by Satan in an attempt to recreate the resurrection of Christ;
: thus, he is referred to as antichrist. These verses also entail the 7
: nation army headed by antichrist. With these nations antichrist will
: conquer the Earth, which would be the galaxy in the Haloverse. Latter in
: Revelation it is told that once antichrist and his forces conquer most all
: the world they will move against Israel to destroy her. In this attempt to
: destroy Israel, the armies of antichrist and antichrist himself will be
: defeated. Some of you may be familiar with this last battle, as it is
: called Armageddon.

Very cool, makes me wonder how the 7 Halos relate to the seven heads. One of the Halo's is "dead", destroyed by the POA explosion. Boy isn't speculation fun.

: As stated before, Satin in the Haloverse is Gravemind. Gravemind is the only
: character in the Haloverse who’s shown the ability to “resurrect”
: individuals. Remember, the MC kills the Prophet of Regret, but Regret is
: later shown animated during the cutscene in which Gravemind is first
: introduced. This matches the account of antichrist in that Regret really
: isn’t alive, but he’s in some kind of “possessed” state through Gravemind.
: My meaning being, Regret can not function without Gravemind just as
: antichrist will not be able to function without Satan. Contiuning down
: this path, I’d say that the possibility of the MC assassinating the
: Prophet of Truth, who is head of a 7 specie army, in Halo 3 is quite high.
: I’d also say that with Gravemind now running free the possibility of the
: Prophet of Truth’s “resurrection” is quite high. Gravemind would do this
: in order to further his own goals just as Satin is told to do so in
: Revaltion. The only other characters I could see playing the role of
: antichrist would be Tartarus or the Arbiter, but I believe Bungie has
: other plans for them.

If indeed there is an anti-christ, why would it not be human? I'll reserve judgment on all of this. If we see Ackerson's or god forbid Keye's head at the end of one of those Gravemind tenticles, I'll revisit this all. Still nice job on the thinking and putting things together.

: Taking all these ideas into account, I’m purposing that the humans and
: Forerunners share the same relationship as man and angels. My meaning,
: there are “good” Forerunners and "bad/fallen" Forerunners,
: Gravemind being the latter. If the fallen Forerunners share the same
: relation to humans as the fallen angels do, then one would have to say
: that the fallen Forerunners interfered with humanity at some point in the
: past. Part of this interference, as was shown in the Dictionary of
: Angels/Fallen Angels, was through interspecies mating. To further this
: concept, does not a Spartan come off as a Nephilim type creature... a
: half-breed? Spartans look like man, but they’re taller, faster, stronger,
: and smarter; so much so that other men have described them as alien like.
: As was exemplified in several instances within the books and games, the
: Spartans seem to have primal instincts when it comes to understanding the
: Forerunner tech and language. It even goes so far as Spartan blood.
: Remember the Forerunner chamber under the ONI facility on Reach that was
: accessed by Fred’s, a Spartan, blood. (p.141, FS) If this concept were to
: hold, then it would mean that Forerunner lineage could be found in some
: humans. I’m suggesting that those certain humans are the Spartans.
: Spartans, after all, are the remnants of a galactic search for the “best
: mankind has to offer”... the only humans who could endure such drastic
: training and surgical enhancements.

I toyed with the idea that cyborgs also met the criteria. The mixing of AI with human to create something new. Certain genetic compatibilities would need to be in place for it all to work. Don't know but it doesn't have to be blood lines, it could be brain patterns or something like that.

: Continuing down this path, one could say that there are many religious
: parallels to be found in the Haloverse; so much so that this post could
: have easily been three times as long. For example, in Hebrew lore there
: are 7 heavens. In the Dictionary of Angels/Fallen Angels these seven
: heavens/palaces/heavenly halls are also identified as hechaloths
: (hekhaloths). There are seven hechaloths in Hebrew lor and 7 halos in the
: Halo universe. Interesting... halo is found in the word hec halo th.
: Further more, I believe the Flood in the Haloverse actually represent sin.
: Think about it for a moment. Sin, at least in the religious sense, starts
: in the mind. When acted upon, sin spreads to your body; as sin leads to
: death of the body. The same thing is said of the Flood in the Haloverse.
: The Flood infects one through the cerebral cortex. From there, one’s
: control over themself is lost… the “self” surrenders to the Flood just as
: the body surrenders to sin. As is told in the Art of Halo, Gravemind is
: the intellect behind the Flood. Hum... is not Satan the intellect behind
: sin. To further this notion, cause for the Biblical flood is traced back
: to original sin in the Garden of Eden, which is a direct tie between man
: and Satan... “I am a monument to all your sins” . These things can be
: speculated on not only because of their near obvious cues, but also
: because Trautmann’s nod toward the Dictionary of Angels/Fallen Angles,
: which is a book constructed from all the major religions. I realize that
: there’s a lot to wrap your head around here, but I believe there’s
: credible insight on the Haloverse to be gained from the Dictionary of
: Angles/Fallen Angels. If anything, the parallels I’ve pointed out in this
: thread are a testament to that. Your comments, arguments, and general
: thoughts are welcome:-)

Yeah, easy to make connections and end up on tangents. All too easy. Hard enough figuring out what to cook for dinner, need to figure out why the "Ark" is on Earth -- ha, I do have priorities, I think.

: - Eagle 117

: P.S.
: All definitions and most of the references to the Bible in this thread where
: derived from the Dictionary of Angels Including Fallen Angels.

Nice job, keep up the good speculating. Anything that brings ET to the forums in a constructive manner can't be all that bad.

Message Index


Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersEagle 117 2/21/05 4:54 p.m.
     WhewJillybean 2/21/05 5:00 p.m.
           Re: WhewEagle 117 2/21/05 5:02 p.m.
                 Re: WhewHikaru-119 2/21/05 5:10 p.m.
                       Re: WhewEagle 117 2/22/05 8:00 a.m.
                 Re: WhewFugitiveSoldier 2/21/05 5:10 p.m.
                       The Last Xion -- Would that tie in?Sniper 058 2/21/05 5:16 p.m.
                 Re: WhewMr. Mister 2/21/05 5:21 p.m.
     All I can say is. . . wow.ARCHANGEL 7 2/21/05 5:08 p.m.
     Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersoBlade 2/21/05 5:09 p.m.
     Nice Ü <--Smiley face, look hardEchoes 2/21/05 5:17 p.m.
           Re: Nice Ü <--Smiley face, look hardEagle 117 2/21/05 7:22 p.m.
     Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersPeptuck 2/21/05 5:18 p.m.
     Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of Answersmeleeman 2/21/05 5:26 p.m.
           Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersHikaru-119 2/21/05 5:35 p.m.
                 Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersSniper 058 2/21/05 6:16 p.m.
                       Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersHikaru-119 2/21/05 7:05 p.m.
                             Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersEagle 117 2/21/05 7:17 p.m.
                                   Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersHikaru-119 2/21/05 7:28 p.m.
           John 117 < "The Savior"Eagle 117 2/22/05 8:27 a.m.
                 Re: John 117 < "The Savior"Eagle 117 2/25/05 10:43 a.m.
                       Re: John 117 < "The Savior"Captain Spark 2/25/05 10:54 a.m.
                             Re: John 117 < "The Savior"Series III (MetalSilver) 2/25/05 10:56 a.m.
                             You should've read before opening your mouthEagle 117 2/25/05 11:15 a.m.
                                   Re: You should've read before opening your mouthCaptain Spark 2/25/05 11:28 a.m.
                                         Re: You should've read before opening your mouthSep7imus [subnova] 2/25/05 11:33 a.m.
                                               Re: You should've read before opening your mouthEagle 117 2/25/05 12:14 p.m.
                                               Re: You should've read before opening your mouthCaptain Spark 2/25/05 3:56 p.m.
                                         Re: You should've read before opening your mouthEagle 117 2/25/05 12:11 p.m.
                                         Re: You should've read before opening your mouthLouis Wu 2/25/05 1:36 p.m.
                                               Re: You should've read before opening your mouthWalshicus 2/25/05 2:21 p.m.
                                                     Re: You should've read before opening your mouthVorpal Sword 2/25/05 2:31 p.m.
                                               Re: You should've read before opening your mouthStuntmutt 2/25/05 3:04 p.m.
                                                     Re: You should've read before opening your mouthLouis Wu 2/25/05 3:18 p.m.
                                                           Re: You should've read before opening your mouthWalshicus 2/25/05 3:34 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You should've read before opening your mouthLouis Wu 2/25/05 4:15 p.m.
                                                                 Re: You should've read before opening your mouthCount Zero 2/25/05 5:21 p.m.
                                                                       Re: You should've read before opening your mouthWalshicus 2/25/05 6:22 p.m.
                                               Re: You should've read before opening your mouthCaptain Spark 2/25/05 3:54 p.m.
                                         Re: You should've read before opening your mouthAnton P. Nym (aka Steve) 2/25/05 3:18 p.m.
                                               It's funny where these conversations go :-) *NM*Eagle 117 2/25/05 3:47 p.m.
                                                     Yes...Walshicus 2/25/05 3:53 p.m.
                                                           Re: Yes...Eagle 117 2/25/05 4:19 p.m.
     good to hear from you as always eagle :D *NM*Voltage 2/21/05 5:38 p.m.
           It's nice to know I'm remembered :-) *NM*Eagle 117 2/21/05 7:18 p.m.
     *blush* :) *NM*Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 2/21/05 5:44 p.m.
     The issue of the Flood is still unanswered...xitwound117 2/21/05 7:42 p.m.
           Re: The issue of the Flood is still unanswered...spaartan117 2/21/05 8:24 p.m.
           Re: The issue of the Flood is still unanswered...Skedar 2/21/05 8:51 p.m.
                 Re: The issue of the Flood is still unanswered...ErraticAuto 2/22/05 3:41 a.m.
     Very Nice. Well Written! *NM*Steve 2/21/05 9:20 p.m.
     Dude, you are AWESOME *nm*dude1 2/22/05 4:12 p.m.
     Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersEric Trautmann 2/22/05 7:17 p.m.
           Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of Answersdude1 2/22/05 7:58 p.m.
           Thanks for the response, Trautmann *NM*replay 2/22/05 9:47 p.m.
           Does this mean I get a cookie... at least a crumbEagle 117 2/23/05 12:18 a.m.
                 Re: Does this mean I get a cookie... at least a crEric Trautmann 2/23/05 3:51 p.m.
                       Re: Does this mean I get a cookie... at least a crdude1 2/23/05 5:53 p.m.
                       Re: Does this mean I get a cookie... at least a crJamirus99 2/23/05 7:35 p.m.
                       Re: Does this mean I get a cookie... at least a crEagle 117 2/23/05 9:28 p.m.
     A few questions/commentsyakaman 2/26/05 2:35 p.m.
           Re: A few questions/commentsEagle 117 2/26/05 11:40 p.m.
                 Re: A few questions/commentsyakaman 2/27/05 2:45 p.m.
     sin, the flood, and baptismforestfroggr 2/27/05 1:57 p.m.
           Re: sin, the flood, and baptismdude1 2/27/05 3:23 p.m.
           Re: sin, the flood, and baptism58 2/27/05 3:37 p.m.
     Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersWado SG 2/27/05 5:57 p.m.
           Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersEric Trautmann 2/28/05 5:26 p.m.
                 Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of Answersreplay 2/28/05 6:04 p.m.
                       Re: Trautmann’s Clue: A Dictionary of AnswersWado SG 2/28/05 6:19 p.m.

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