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Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lon
Posted By: Count Zero <countzero@bungie.org>Date: 11/18/04 11:24 a.m.

In Response To: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *long (Ducain)

: First, to me at least, this entire game (I'm talking storyline here) seems like an unecessary parenthesis : in the whole story. If you've played the first Halo, and you've read the Halo novels, it seems like it
: would be no problem at all to simply jump right to Halo 3 and forget that this game ever existed.
: There were very few revelations in this storyline, and it seems like the game ends precisely where I
: thought it was going to begin.

Actually, I thought the storyline was pretty good. To me, the first game was an unnecessary parenthesis to the first novel; it had the same problems you're complaining about in Halo 2. The entire build-up of the war against the Covenant was set aside for this stroll through the Halo, killing tons of enemies without any strategic victories or changes in the course of the war. At the end of the game, the universe is in the same state as it was at the start, minus one Halo, a Covenant fleet, and the crew of the PoA. This is not true in Halo 2- the storyline reveals a great deal more about the past and present situations, and starts to really go places in the latter third of the game (I'm just as disappointed with the ending as anyone else, but it doesn't ruin the other 99% of the game).

: I have SO much more to say, such as specifics about why I think the gameplay
: in Halo 2 is less fun than Halo 1, but I think I've said plenty enough
: already to get the Benedict Arnold treatment from the community, so I'm
: just gonna wrap this up.

I actually agree with most of what you said- all the tiny changes lost something that Halo 1 had. The new handling of the vehicles, the ability to jump higher, the increased ease and frequency of dying after your shields drop, the new melee attack method, the large numbers of airborne enemies, the hostile snipers, the levels more diligently forcing you to go through them in a limited number of designed ways, the vehicles that can be lost permanently, all add up to a subtly different flow than Halo 1. Of course, "not as good as Halo" still leaves a very good game.

A lot of things I listed there are just things that are different from what I'm used to in Halo 1, and it's likely they'll chafe less with time and adjusting habits and skills.

One of the major flaw with the SP game, for me, is the existence of multiple playable characters. In the first game, you were the chief, and he was you, and you were in the game. This was obviously important to Bungie as they took it into account for a lot of their decisions, such as never showing the Chief's face. In Halo 2, you are switched back and forth, at Bungie's whim between two entirely separate characters. You've been demoted from Chief to puppeteer. I understand *why* this decision was made, as it allowed for the exploration of Covenant society and the movie-style simultaneous intertwining story threads, but something visceral has been lost.

: Oh yeah! XBL on Halo 2 absolutely ROCKS!!!! I mean, WOW! That's probably
: going to be where my true enjoyment of this game occurs.

Exactly. XBL was the critical piece missing from Halo 1, especially for people who didn't want to bother with XBC. Halo 2 on XBL is going to be fun for months or years, just like single-player Halo 1 supplemented by the occasional lanparty was. This is where the game's longevity comes from, and it's what we'll be playing when the campaign is completely used up and forgotten, and I don't really have a problem with that. It's just different.


Message Index




Replies:

My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *longDucain 11/18/04 10:12 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *sp*N1NJ4 11/18/04 10:29 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonICDedPpl 11/18/04 10:35 a.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonjazo 11/18/04 10:43 a.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonIsh 11/18/04 10:46 a.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonGladius 1000 11/18/04 7:20 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonCaptain Spark 11/18/04 10:50 a.m.
     Re: Me agrees *NM*thunderhawk555 11/18/04 11:17 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonWalshicus 11/18/04 11:22 a.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonCount Zero 11/18/04 11:33 a.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonWalshicus 11/18/04 11:46 a.m.
           Er...bigass spoilers on this sub-thread? *NM*Andrew Nagy 11/18/04 12:56 p.m.
                 More like the whole thread. *NM*Andrew Nagy 11/18/04 12:58 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *loncyberg4 11/18/04 11:22 a.m.
           I must say, I was not disappointed...stan 11/18/04 9:34 p.m.
                 Re: I must say, I was not disappointed...-more earthe armsman 11/19/04 1:24 a.m.
                 Not really Bungie anymore.Mangler 11/29/04 4:27 p.m.
                       Re: Not really Bungie anymore.grunt killer 11/29/04 4:31 p.m.
                             Oh, pleaseJillybean 11/29/04 4:37 p.m.
                                   Re: WTHeck?Wado SG 11/29/04 5:31 p.m.
                             OMG! My evil twin! ^^ *NM* *NM*GruntKilla 11/29/04 5:18 p.m.
                       Re: Not really Bungie anymore.Count Zero 11/29/04 4:54 p.m.
                       Re: Not really Bungie anymore.Anton P. Nym (aka Steve) 11/29/04 5:07 p.m.
                             I'd have to agree FULLY!SYSTEMS 11/29/04 5:53 p.m.
                       Re: Not really Bungie anymore.Ross Mills [subnova] 11/29/04 5:39 p.m.
                       Re: Not really Bungie anymore.Andrew Nagy 11/29/04 7:14 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonCount Zero 11/18/04 11:24 a.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonWarbinger 11/18/04 11:41 a.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonE.T. the Extremely Tired 11/18/04 11:56 a.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonSep7imus [subnova] 11/18/04 2:55 p.m.
                       Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonE.T. the Extremely Tired 11/18/04 3:48 p.m.
                             Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonDruff 11/18/04 5:23 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday afternoom BBQPico 11/18/04 1:39 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonFriendlyFire 11/18/04 3:30 p.m.
                 My reaction *sp* longMC vince 11/18/04 6:14 p.m.
                       Re: My reaction *sp* longTarrsk 11/18/04 7:08 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonCabanaguy25 11/18/04 11:36 a.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonWalshicus 11/18/04 11:55 a.m.
                 A matter of preference?Beoren 11/18/04 1:49 p.m.
                       Re: A matter of preference?Micrometalus 11/18/04 2:06 p.m.
           Re: Damn, now I'm hungry *SP* *long*C Hunter X 11/18/04 9:47 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonE1337 11/18/04 11:44 a.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonResponsible Jon 11/18/04 11:47 a.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonIsh 11/18/04 11:52 a.m.
                       Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonTy4Lom 11/18/04 12:14 p.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonE1337 11/18/04 11:59 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonLothar Hex 11/18/04 11:54 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonClefton Twain 11/18/04 11:55 a.m.
     This is a great summary *opinion, spoilers*gspawn 11/18/04 11:55 a.m.
           Re: This is a great summary *opinion, spoilers*Th3 Guns1inger 11/19/04 1:55 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonDruff 11/18/04 11:57 a.m.
     I hesitantly, but wholeheartedly, agree *NM*HK HUNTRKILLR 11/18/04 12:01 p.m.
     How to respond....Saint [lpn] 11/18/04 12:07 p.m.
           Oops... *SP* ^^ *NM*Saint [lpn] 11/18/04 12:08 p.m.
           Re: How to respond....ShadowRanger 11/18/04 12:23 p.m.
           Re: How to respond....Narhl'Lar 11/18/04 5:07 p.m.
     couldn't agree more *NM* *NM*Mr_McMurder 11/18/04 12:15 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonSep7imus [subnova] 11/18/04 12:17 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonphlux 11/18/04 12:50 p.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonDucain 11/18/04 1:11 p.m.
                       Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonSep7imus [subnova] 11/18/04 1:28 p.m.
                       Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonCaptain Spark 11/18/04 1:30 p.m.
                       Why what you feel is right...and why it will fadeJamirus99 11/18/04 2:54 p.m.
                             Re: Why what you feel is right...and why it will fRed Loser 11/18/04 5:35 p.m.
                                   Re: Why what you feel is right...and why it will fwraith7n 11/18/04 6:58 p.m.
                                   Re: Why what you feel is right...and why it will fvector40 11/29/04 6:17 p.m.
                                         Re: Why what you feel is right...and why it will fDjof 11/29/04 8:49 p.m.
                                               Re: Why what you feel is right...and why it will fSep7imus [subnova] 11/29/04 8:56 p.m.
                       Stfu, nub. :) *NM*Blitzwolf 11/29/04 3:41 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonsKribbler 11/18/04 1:06 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonClefton Twain 11/18/04 1:11 p.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonsKribbler 11/18/04 1:24 p.m.
           Bring your own flames... *SP*axman 11/18/04 2:46 p.m.
                 Re: Bring your own flames... *SP*klurejr 11/18/04 4:59 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonTh3 Guns1inger 11/19/04 2:11 a.m.
     I also can't agree morePhatcorns 11/18/04 12:25 p.m.
     Text is too smallpoena.dare (not.dead.yet) 11/18/04 1:07 p.m.
           Re: Text is too small I AGREEwraith7n 11/18/04 7:02 p.m.
                 Re: Text is too small I AGREEragereset 11/20/04 4:35 p.m.
     A game is only new once.ragereset 11/18/04 1:24 p.m.
           Re: A game is only new once.sKribbler 11/18/04 1:29 p.m.
                 Re: A game is only new once.Druff 11/18/04 1:40 p.m.
                       Re: A game is only new once.sKribbler 11/18/04 1:44 p.m.
                             Re: A game is only new once.Druff 11/18/04 1:46 p.m.
     Totally agreed *NM*fartman 11/18/04 1:29 p.m.
     Re: Foundation: MarathonDr. Blake 11/18/04 1:41 p.m.
           Marathon, Halo, Hardware salesKanen Faud'r 11/18/04 6:40 p.m.
                 Holy crap...Louis Wu 11/18/04 8:13 p.m.
                       Re: Holy crap...Kanen Faud'r 11/18/04 10:15 p.m.
                             Re: Bungie's next project?ThorsHammer 11/19/04 12:40 a.m.
     My feelings exactly...Someone 11/18/04 1:44 p.m.
     Another agreement and some more opinionsMicrometalus 11/18/04 1:59 p.m.
           Re: Another agreement and some more opinionsMicrometalus 11/18/04 2:01 p.m.
                 If you can spoil lack of an ending, then *SP*sKribbler 11/18/04 2:12 p.m.
                       Re: If you can spoil lack of an ending, then *SP*HK HUNTRKILLR 11/18/04 3:25 p.m.
                             I'll agree, with a note about musicDalan Galma 11/18/04 4:24 p.m.
           Re: Another agreement and some more opinionswraith7n 11/18/04 7:06 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonXLNC 11/18/04 2:00 p.m.
     OMG U n00b H4L0 2 is t3h suXX00rz!!!111oneretsamolah 11/18/04 2:07 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonZaknafein 11/18/04 2:28 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonXenos 11/18/04 2:30 p.m.
     More fuel for the flames. And who's fault is it?Infantier 11/18/04 2:31 p.m.
           Re: More fuel for the flames. And who's fault is iFire 11/18/04 2:52 p.m.
           Re: More fuel for the flames. And who's fault is igodfath3r24 11/18/04 3:04 p.m.
     Conspiracy Theoryterm 11/18/04 2:57 p.m.
           Re: Conspiracy Theory? Yes Indeed!Spartan39 11/18/04 3:08 p.m.
                 Conspiracy Theory Evidence?term 11/19/04 1:38 p.m.
     I agree *spoilers*Sith 11/18/04 3:14 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) (SP)number302079 11/18/04 3:23 p.m.
     Another point of view, for your considerationGil-Galahad 11/18/04 3:24 p.m.
           Re: Another point of view, for your considerationDucain 11/18/04 4:14 p.m.
                 *SP*, huge *SP* - even Star Wars *SP*'sE.T. the Extremely Tired 11/18/04 4:59 p.m.
     I feel the same way, thanks for standing up *NM*marleybadger 11/18/04 3:30 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonxSIVELx 11/18/04 3:45 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonMoose 11/18/04 4:10 p.m.
     -_-Sanj 11/18/04 3:53 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonJohnnie H. 11/18/04 3:58 p.m.
     Agree and Disagree *spoilers*Stanford101 11/18/04 3:59 p.m.
           In conclusion, happySiLvEr 11/18/04 4:05 p.m.
           Re: Agree and Disagree *spoilers*Captain Spark 11/18/04 4:57 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonDarkshot 11/18/04 4:02 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonAllAmerican 11/18/04 4:14 p.m.
     Ooooooooooh DISAGREE!!!!! (some spoilers)Jillybean 11/18/04 4:16 p.m.
           Re: Ooooooooooh DISAGREE!!!!! (some spoilers)Pico 11/18/04 4:49 p.m.
                 theereazeDucain 11/18/04 4:54 p.m.
                       Re: theereazeJillybean 11/18/04 5:00 p.m.
                 Okay - I have a theoryJillybean 11/18/04 4:58 p.m.
                       Re: Okay - I have a theory (good theory!)Pico 11/18/04 6:25 p.m.
                       Re: Okay - I have a theoryRampant Cowboy 11/18/04 6:51 p.m.
                       Re: Okay - I have a theoryFuzzyWhisper 11/18/04 7:08 p.m.
                       Re: Okay - I have a theoryBOLL 11/19/04 6:27 a.m.
                             Only maybe?Jillybean 11/19/04 8:03 a.m.
                                   Re: Only maybe?BOLL 11/19/04 1:55 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonFuzzyWhisper 11/18/04 4:18 p.m.
           More of my Thoughts (Minor *SP*)Moose 11/18/04 4:28 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonVadcol 11/18/04 4:22 p.m.
     My Thursday evening opinion-soup. *SP*Chester the Destroyer 11/18/04 4:28 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonklurejr 11/18/04 4:31 p.m.
           Yes, UnfortunatlyBlueWizard 11/18/04 4:54 p.m.
                 Notice How Bungie is Quite???Vadcol 11/18/04 5:18 p.m.
                       check yo facts! yo!FrogBlast 11/18/04 5:28 p.m.
                       peoplegrunt killer 11/29/04 4:29 p.m.
                             Re: peopleMr. Mister 11/29/04 5:02 p.m.
                             Re: peopleGladius Dei 11/29/04 5:15 p.m.
                             Re: people343winks 11/29/04 5:39 p.m.
     AMEN! Couldn't have said it better myself! *NM*Eric Smith 11/18/04 4:56 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonJHG 11/18/04 5:16 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonLysergicide 11/18/04 5:26 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *Dee23 11/18/04 5:39 p.m.
     What I think of halo 2timboh56 11/18/04 5:45 p.m.
     Negative Remark/Opinion About Halo 2Kinotrica M 11/18/04 6:25 p.m.
           Re: Negative Remark/Opinion About Halo 2Narhl'Lar 11/18/04 6:45 p.m.
           Did I miss something?FuzzyWhisper 11/18/04 7:01 p.m.
           Re: Negative Remark/Opinion About Halo 2timboh56 11/18/04 7:59 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonwraith7n 11/18/04 6:36 p.m.
     Thursday night BBQ*SP*FrogBlast 11/18/04 6:39 p.m.
           Hear, hear. Couldn't agree more. *NM*FuzzyWhisper 11/18/04 7:04 p.m.
           But think about how long halo 3 will be.Hawaiian Pig 11/18/04 8:35 p.m.
     All The More Strategyjewelskull 11/18/04 6:54 p.m.
     Has anyone played Halo 2 and NOT Halo 1?wangboy 11/18/04 7:45 p.m.
     Ash Offerings *SP*Socrates 11/18/04 7:55 p.m.
     I ASOLUTELY AGREE *NM*wood the great 11/18/04 8:00 p.m.
     You're absolutely right *Spoilers*Toby Dillman 11/18/04 8:37 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonRockhard 11/18/04 8:43 p.m.
     Unfortunately, you're right. *SP?* *semi-long.*Coleus 11/18/04 8:45 p.m.
           Whoops!Coleus 11/18/04 9:08 p.m.
           Re: Unfortunately, you're right. *SP?* *semi-long.Rockhard 11/18/04 9:17 p.m.
                 Re: Unfortunately, you're right. *SP?* *semi-long.Tarrsk 11/18/04 11:20 p.m.
                       Warning, uninformed opinion withinAndrew Nagy 11/19/04 6:42 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonGladius Dei 11/18/04 9:01 p.m.
     I don't agree...stan 11/18/04 9:16 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonGunny343 11/18/04 10:08 p.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonCody Danna 11/18/04 10:30 p.m.
           Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonFuzzyWhisper 11/19/04 4:28 a.m.
                 Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonTh3 Guns1inger 11/19/04 2:32 p.m.
                       Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonRvB Church 117 11/19/04 9:10 p.m.
     Re: halo is nothing like Halo 2RvB Church 117 11/18/04 10:48 p.m.
     Re: Do you not remember? *spDark_Angel 11/19/04 8:59 a.m.
           heheDucain 11/19/04 9:29 a.m.
                 Halo 3?haloplyr 11/19/04 10:23 a.m.
                       Well, considering Halo 2's ending...FuzzyWhisper 11/19/04 1:39 p.m.
           Dark Angel is, like, a ripoff! *NM*Andrew Nagy 11/19/04 2:03 p.m.
                 Re: Dark Angel is, like, a ripoff!Dark_Angel 11/20/04 1:37 a.m.
                       Re: Dark Angel is, like, a ripoff!Ducain 11/20/04 5:42 a.m.
     You know...Snickles 11/19/04 10:56 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonKevin Bullock 11/19/04 11:25 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonTh3 Guns1inger 11/19/04 1:03 p.m.
     Re:(just add flames)Skavenger_s7 11/20/04 9:33 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ-hmmmvshields ash 11/20/04 12:53 p.m.
     I Enjoyed it!!!Reflux-Anarchy 11/22/04 11:31 a.m.
           Bungie.netMcSplatterGuts 11/22/04 11:36 a.m.
     Re: My Thursday morning BBQ (just add flames) *lonUser 11/23/04 2:03 p.m.
     My long reply Re: My Thursday morning BBQEpyon 11/29/04 4:55 p.m.
     Re: YOU ARE SPOILED SIRAdham Nu'man 11/30/04 9:50 a.m.



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